Re: Just how big is "known space"?

--- David Shepheard <david_shepheard@???????.com>
wrote:
> That is logical. The SJ RPG products definatly
> provide the 2nd edition equivellent of "core rules".
> However, I wouldn't say that the entire SJ RPG 
> line should be included in the Geonomicon.

Undoubtedly.


> I don't buy Krynnspace, Realmspace and Greyspace as
> "known space" as even if you count the dodgy planets
> and the suns, you can't get the count up to 80 
> entries.

At the time the original boxed set was written, I
would say yes, the extent of Known Space was indeed
krynn/oerth/realms.  As the product line matured, that
rapidly changed, of course.


> I don't recall Moragspace and Shadowspace. What were
> they from?

Goblin's Return & Heart of the Enemy.  Neither are
really very good spheres; one is a(nother) sphere of
asteroids, the other was written by an author whom I
do not believe understood the concepts of SJ very well
(the whole sphere is not much bigger than a
modest-sized planet).


> I definately wouldn't include the Astromundi Cluster
> in "known space", or put any of its celestial bodies
> into the Geonomicon.

I don't disagree.  Indeed, Astromundi probably belongs
as a "stand-alone", in the distant future (as hinted
at by Lords of Madness).  


> Looking at the SJ RPG line as a whole, I suppose you
> could *try* to sell me on a "known space" that
> *starts* with the Radiant Triangle (during the time 
> Adventures in Wildspace came out) and expands to
> enough spheres to make a Geonomicon of 80 worlds (by
> the time of Practical Planetology). 

That's how the SJ line matured.  Its not an indication
of where "Known Space" began :)


> However, that would put spacefaring civilisation
> down as something that has only occured in the last
> few hundred years. It might even force spacefaring 
> civilisation to be a more recent and faster thing!

Well, we know that Greatspace has been around for a
while.  Elves have been running around the stars for
12,000+ years.  Illithids supposedly popped up only
2,000 years ago.  Human SJ-trade must have been active
as of 300 years ago, for Bral's timeline to work.


> Personally, I'd prefer to have humans in wildspace
> for at least 1000 years.  SJR1 Lost Ships has
> several hull designs in it that are associated with 
> previous generations of humans 

That's probably a bare minimum, for the reasons
stated.  
 

> The Arcane Inner Flow would be a good thing to add
> to "known space", but the Outer Flow would probably
> provide too many worlds to create just 80 entries 
> in the Geonomicon. 

Frankly, I think it should be not included simply
because there's no way in heck we're going to get much
beyond the Inner Flow, much less to the Outer!


> I would definatly include most of the spheres from
> the early novels in known space,

Of the novel spheres, the ones most likely to include
in "Known Space" would be Winter (Radiant Dragon),
Heart (Broken Sphere), and the one-off comment spheres
of Path, Way, Prime, & Vista.  The rest (Herd & all
the spheres mentioned in Ultimate Helm) would be far
beyond Known Space.  Done up right, between the RPG
spheres & these five spheres, you have a fairly large
yet robust setting.


> As said above, I don't think the Vodoni spheres work
> well as part of "known space", but I do agree with
> you in general principle.

Vodoni are best viewed as that "empire just over the
horizon".


> I would have a central area where ships can obtain
> sphere maps and flow maps.

The Inner Flow would be ideal for what you're
suggesting, actually.


> I don't remember several dozen, although from what I
> recall the RPG products also namedrop random
> locations in sidebars.

Implied several dozen, although not all were named. 
The "implied" part comes from planet name-dropping,
particularly in regards to planetary destruction (the
elf world destroyed in UWI, two goblin worlds
destroyed, the elf world destroyed in Evermeet, etc).


Adam

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