Re: Spelljammer Ace reboot

Thanks Dave! I was hoping you would lend your scalpel to this. I am buried
busy, but will be be checking out your recommendations in depth ASAP. I'll
reply with my thoughts by the weekend.
-Loki

On 7/8/07, David Shepheard <david_shepheard@???????.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry for the delay Loki.
>
> Here are some various comments, that are hopefully constructive:
>
> 1) I really don't like the name "Spelljammer Ace" - it suggests a WWI
> aircraft pilot ("Fighter Ace") rather than a helmsman. Pilots became Aces
> by
> gaining enemy kills rather than by their ability to fly a plane.
>
> I'd prefer a name that sounds less modern and suggests either something
> related to ships or Spelljammer. We already call people who operate the
> helm
> a helmsman, so why can't the name be related to that? As far as I know
> there
> is no "Helmsman" PrC, so you could call it that. Alternatively how about
> merging the name "Spellmaster" (the ship's most powerful spellcaster) with
> "Helmsman" (who ever is on the helm) to make a new title - Helmsmaster.
>
> A Ship's Helmsmaster could be the person on the ship with the greatest
> skill
> in manning the helm. NPCs wouldn't need to take any levels in the PrC to
> gain the title, but it would tie in well. It certainly has less of a
> dog-fighting feel to it.
>
> 2) Spelljammer Ace HD = d6. This is bad for clerics and druids (normally
> d8), but good for sorcerers and wizards (normally d4). There is no
> difference for bards (also d6), but paladins and rangers take a big hit
> (normally d10).
>
> I can see this class appealing to wizards a lot more than it does to
> divine
> spellcasters.
>
> 3) "Pilot Spelljammer" skill - I agree it should work off of intellegence
> (because it is most similar to scry). I'm not a big fan of the name. Ships
> *do* have pilots, but I believe that they bring ships into and out of
> harbours rather than controlling them on the open seas.
>
> I'd rather see this skill called "Use Helm", as that would fit in a lot
> better with "Use Rope" and "Use Magical Device".
>
> Before you get this PrC done, this skill needs to be explained. Given that
> anyone can sit on a helm, I think this *must* be a skill that you can use
> untrained.
>
> I also think that like the skill will need to unlock certain abilities in
> order for it to useful enough to justify its existance. What exactly can a
> PC with 21 ranks in this skill (but no access to this PrC) do? PCs who put
> a
> lot of points into this skill should be able to do things that unskilled
> helmsmen can't even try. Or maybe they should have smaller penalties for
> failing "Use Helm" checks.
>
> 4) Requirement: Spellcraft 4 ranks - what is the point of this skill? It
> has
> no connection with controlling a helm.
>
> 5) Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks - as above. You don't need this skill to be
> a
> helmsman.
>
> 6) Skills - Knowledge (arcana) - again, why would this be something this
> PrC
> would learn? They should be a spellcaster who neglects their magical
> studies
> to concentrate on flying spelljamming helms.
>
> 7) Skill points per level (4+Int) - this is more than clerics, sorcerers
> and
> wizards get. It *might* be a bit overpowered. 4+Int is what a druid gets,
> but I don't think you are aiming this PrC at them.
>
> I would rather give this PrC limited skills but build in some sort of
> ability that helps someone to operate a helm - something that gets better
> and better as they level up.
>
> 8) Your table. I couldn't understand that at all. It was all squashed up.
> If
> you want to display a table, I suggest you use something like Google Docs:
> http://docs.google.com/
>
> Google docs allows you to create online documents that can be saved as DOC
> or PDF files or shared as a web page. Email me offlist if you want to a
> hand
> using it.
>
> 9) Spells per Day - Huh? You already said they gain spells as if they
> advanced in an existing class. If this is supposed to be spells that the
> helm *doesn't* absorb then you have written it backwards, because the
> orisons/cantrips should come first.
>
> 10) Weapon and armour proficiency - that fits in fairly well with
> shipboard
> life, although you might want to add belaying pin.
>
> 11) Cheat the Helm (I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this) - I
> absolutely hate this ability. Shattered Fractine did something similar for
> another PrC and I didn't like that either.
>
> If there is a way to stop a helm absorbing spells, there should be some
> sort
> of cost - either to the ship (a SR penalty) or to the helmsman (maybe less
> time on the helm). Allowing certain characters and NPCs to circumvent this
> rule is just plain unfair to everyone else.
>
> If this sort of thing was done as something like a metamagic feat (with a
> character using a 2nd level slot to retain a 1st level spell and also
> loosing SR as if they had already cast a 2nd level spell) then I'd be more
> likely to accept that it was balanced.
>
> 12) Spelljammer Defense (again I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this)
> -
> I absolutely love this ability. This is exactly the sort of ability you
> would get if you spent a long time practising your flying skills.
>
> But why is it just +1 instead of +1 per level of the PrC (or =1 per
> two/three/four levels). This ability should get better as the character
> spends more time in the PrC.
>
> 13) Piloting Mastery (I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this). I like
> this, although I don't like the name (I'd prefer something like "Helm
> Mastery"). However, I feel that this should be a feat available to all
> helmsmen that meet certain requirements.
>
> 14) Extra Maneuver (I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this). I like
> this, but don't like the way it is written.
>
> What does "...at -5 to the Pilot SJ roll." mean? You don't normally make
> rolls to manouver.
>
> I think you should give this a DC and have players make a roll above the
> DC
> to get an extra manouver. This might even be something that you can do
> with
> just the skill (rather than with the PrC). It might also be something that
> a
> feat could unlock in the skill.
>
> 15) Ride the Stellar Wind (another ability where I'm not sure of the PrC
> level). Is this actually related to stellar activity? If so does that mean
> that it only works in crystal spheres with suns? Does it mean that it
> doesn't work outside crystal spheres?
>
> I think this should be given a different name that has nothing to do with
> suns. Again this is something that could be a feat rather than part of a
> PrC.
>
> I even think that there could be a metamagic feat that allows helmsmen to
> push spells into a helm faster than normal (and maybe halve their time on
> the helm to improve their SR).
>
> BTW: Beyond the Moons have decided to replace the term "Ship's Raiting"
> with
> "Tactical Raiting" in order to avoid confusing with spell resistance.
>
> 16) Second Chance (again I don't know when a PC get this) - I like the
> ability, but don't like the name (which implies you are doing this twice).
> This seems like the granted power of the "Luck" domain, so I think a title
> with luck in it would be better.
>
> How about "Helmsman's Luck".
>
> I'd probably boost this ability and allow a helmsman to reroll any roll
> related to flying the ship (i.e. saving throws, spelljammer shock saving
> throws rolls or any other sort of rolls you can thing of).
>
> 17) Spelljammer Specialization (I'm not sure when the PrC gets this) - I
> like this, but it should definately should be a feat that any helmsman can
> take.
>
> 18) Strengthen the Ship (I'm not sure when the PrC gets this) - Ships are
> not constructs - the are attended items. I think that in 3/3.5e the
> helmsman
> should be rolling all the saving throws for the ship anyway (and the boss
> of
> the weapon crew should be rolling attack rolls).
>
> Strengthen the Ship, IMO, should boost saving throws. Maybe +1 per level
> of
> the PrC. However, we really need to agree on a ship combat system for 3e,
> before we can talk about this.
>
> 19) Spelljamming Evasion (I'm not sure when the PrC gets this). Given that
> most ship's weapons have slow rates of fire, I think that once per round
> might be a bit excessive.
>
> I think that this should be folded into the Second Chance ability and made
> into something that works once per day. (You already have Spelljammer
> Defense to protect the ship.)
>
> 20) Spelljammer Ace Bonus Feats - I'm not really sure if you need bonus
> feats as well as the other abilities. But if you do have them the ones
> that
> don't specifically apply to flying the ship should all be dumped.
>
> There is no logic for members of this PrC to learn how to fire ship's
> weapons So Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise
> Shot,
> Rapid Shot, Manyshot and Shot on the Run don't make sense. They should be
> included in a Weaponmaster PrC.
>
> Improved Boarding and Quick Draw don't make sense for someone who spends
> all
> their time sitting in a helm.
>
> Even Slow Respiration, Space Mariner and Magical Aptitude are
> questionable.
>
> I've mostly pulled this apart, otherwise I'd say "apart from that it's
> fine". :-)
>
> I do think there is some gold in this PrC. But I also think that we need
> to
> finish a lot more of the BtM conversion PDFs before we have the foundation
> on which we can build PrC abilities.
>
> David "Big Mac" Shepheard
> Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
>
> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
> http://www32.brinkster.com/virtualeclipse/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Loki" <george.williams.iv@?????.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:38 PM
> Subject: [SPELLJAMMER] Spelljammer Ace reboot
>
>
> > Okay, this is the latest iteration of this Prestige Class. It began as a
> > piece done by Andy Collins in his (controversial) take on SJ for 3rd
> > Edition. Then Bongo Dave on the Spelljammer Yahoo Group tweaked it
> adding
> > the Cheat The Helm mechanic, one of my all time favorite innovations.
> >
> > Anyway, I rearranged a lot, added, subtracted and now present:
> > Loki's Version of Bongo Dave's reboot of Andy Collins' Spelljammer Ace.
> >
> > Please examine and critique honestly, you know where to send the
> hatemail.
> > Spelljammer Ace Hit Die
> >
> > d6
> > Requirements
> >
> > To qualify to become a spelljammer ace, a character must fulfill all of
> > the
> > following criteria.
> > Skills
> >
> > Pilot Spelljammer 7 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks,
> > Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
> > Feats
> >
> > Spacefarer
> > Spells
> >
> > Ability to cast at least one arcane or divine spell of 2nd level or
> > higher.
> > Class Skills
> >
> > The spelljammer ace 's class skills (and the key ability for each skill)
> > are
> > Bluff <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/bluff.htm> (Cha), ,
> > Concentration<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm>(Con),
> > Knowledge <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm> (Arcana,
> > Wildspace, Phlogiston, Individual Sphere) (Int), Pilot Spelljammer
> (Int),
> > Profession <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm> (Spacehand,
> > Wildspace Navigator, Phlogiston Navigator) (Wis),
> > Spellcraft<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm>(Int)
> > Skill Points at Each Level
> >
> > 4 + Int modifier.
> > Table: The Spelljammer Ace  Level Base
> > Attack Bonus Fort
> > Save Ref
> > Save Will
> > Save Special Spells per Day  1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Cheat The Helm, Spelljammer
> > Defense +1 level of existing class  2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Piloting Mastery +1
> > level of existing class  3rd +1 +1 +3 +3 Extra Maneuver, Bonus Feat +1
> > level
> > of existing class  4th +2 +1 +4 +4 Ride The Stellar Wind +1 level of
> > existing class  5th +2 +1 +4 +4 Second Chance +1 level of existing class
> > 6th +3 +2 +5 +5 Spelljammer Specialization, Bonus Feat +1 level of
> > existing
> > class  7th +3 +2 +5 +5 Extra Maneuver +1 level of existing class  8th +4
> > +2
> > +6 +6 Ride The Stellar Wind +1 level of existing class  9th +4 +3 +6
> > +6 Strengthen
> > The Ship, Bonus feat +1 level of existing class  10th +5 +3 +7 +7
> > Spelljammer
> > Evasion +1 level of existing class  Class Features
> >
> > All of the following are Class Features of the Spelljamming Ace prestige
> > class.
> >
> > *Weapon and Armor Proficiency:* The Spelljamming Ace gains proficiency
> > with
> > the cutlass, saber, and starwheel pistol.
> > Spells per Day
> >
> > When a new Spelljammer Ace level is gained, the character gains new
> spells
> > per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he
> > belonged
> > to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any
> other
> > benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an
> > increased
> > effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one
> > spellcasting class before becoming a Spelljammer Ace, he must decide to
> > which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per
> > day.
> >
> >
> >
> > *Cheat the Helm (Su):*
> > Through skill and practice, the Spelljammer Ace learns to retain some of
> > his
> > lower level spells, "cheating the helm" of some of his magic, which he
> can
> > still use after leaving the helm. This does not alter the way SR is
> > calculated because it does not effect caster levels.
> >
> > Adepts, wizards and divine casters must choose which spells are
> retained.
> >   Spell Level  SJ Ace Level 0 1 2 3 4 5  1 All            2 All 1
> > 3 All 2          4 All 2 1        5 All 2 2        6 All 2 2 1      7
> All
> > 2
> > 2 2      8 All 2 2 2 1    9 All 2 2 2 2    10 All 2 2 2 2 1
> >
> >
> >
> > *Spelljammer Defense (Ex):* +1 dodge bonus to ship's AC per Spelljammer
> > Ace
> > Level. You lose it if you're in shock, etc.
> >
> > *Piloting Mastery (Ex):* Can take 10 on Pilot Splljammer rolls even
> under
> > adverse circumstances.
> >
> > *Extra Maneuver (Ex):* At 3rd one extra maneuver per round, at -5 to the
> > Pilot SJ roll. Allows an extra side of hex facing in a turn. The
> penality
> > reduces to 0 at 7th
> >
> > *Ride The Stellar Wind (Su):* +1 SR at 4th lvl, +2 at 8th
> >
> > *Second Chance (Ex): *A free reroll of any Pilot check you just made,
> > 1/day.
> >
> >
> > *Spelljammer Specialization (Ex)*: +4 to Pilot checks with 1 type/class
> of
> > ship (i.e. Elven Man 'O War).
> >
> > *Strengthen the Ship (Su): *Use your will save in place of the ship's
> > save,
> > regardless of the save type required. Results are the same if you fail.
> >
> > *Spelljamming Evasion (Ex):* You may attempt a Pilot check to negate any
> > hit
> > on your vessel. The DC is equal to the attack roll that hit. Success
> means
> > no damage, 1/round.
> >
> > *Spelljammer Ace Bonus Feats: *
> > Phlogiston Sense, Skill Focus (Pilot Spelljammer), Improved Boarding,
> > Improved Shear Attack, Freefall, Ramming Focus, Ramming Specialiazation,
> > Ramming Expert, Slow Respiration, Space Mariner, Magical Aptitude, Quick
> > Draw, Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot,
> > <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot> Far
> > Shot<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#farShot> ,
> > Precise Shot <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#preciseShot> ,
> Improved
> > Precise Shot <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedPreciseShot> ,
> > Rapid
> > Shot <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidShot> ,
> > Manyshot<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#manyshot>,
> > Shot On The Run <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#shotOnTheRun>
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Loki, List Ogre for the Spelljammer Yahoo Group
> >
> > ********************************************************************
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> >
>
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-- 
George "Loki" Williams, writing and other abberrations

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