Re: Spelljammer Ace reboot

Sorry for the delay Loki.

Here are some various comments, that are hopefully constructive:

1) I really don't like the name "Spelljammer Ace" - it suggests a WWI 
aircraft pilot ("Fighter Ace") rather than a helmsman. Pilots became Aces by 
gaining enemy kills rather than by their ability to fly a plane.

I'd prefer a name that sounds less modern and suggests either something 
related to ships or Spelljammer. We already call people who operate the helm 
a helmsman, so why can't the name be related to that? As far as I know there 
is no "Helmsman" PrC, so you could call it that. Alternatively how about 
merging the name "Spellmaster" (the ship's most powerful spellcaster) with 
"Helmsman" (who ever is on the helm) to make a new title - Helmsmaster.

A Ship's Helmsmaster could be the person on the ship with the greatest skill 
in manning the helm. NPCs wouldn't need to take any levels in the PrC to 
gain the title, but it would tie in well. It certainly has less of a 
dog-fighting feel to it.

2) Spelljammer Ace HD = d6. This is bad for clerics and druids (normally 
d8), but good for sorcerers and wizards (normally d4). There is no 
difference for bards (also d6), but paladins and rangers take a big hit 
(normally d10).

I can see this class appealing to wizards a lot more than it does to divine 
spellcasters.

3) "Pilot Spelljammer" skill - I agree it should work off of intellegence 
(because it is most similar to scry). I'm not a big fan of the name. Ships 
*do* have pilots, but I believe that they bring ships into and out of 
harbours rather than controlling them on the open seas.

I'd rather see this skill called "Use Helm", as that would fit in a lot 
better with "Use Rope" and "Use Magical Device".

Before you get this PrC done, this skill needs to be explained. Given that 
anyone can sit on a helm, I think this *must* be a skill that you can use 
untrained.

I also think that like the skill will need to unlock certain abilities in 
order for it to useful enough to justify its existance. What exactly can a 
PC with 21 ranks in this skill (but no access to this PrC) do? PCs who put a 
lot of points into this skill should be able to do things that unskilled 
helmsmen can't even try. Or maybe they should have smaller penalties for 
failing "Use Helm" checks.

4) Requirement: Spellcraft 4 ranks - what is the point of this skill? It has 
no connection with controlling a helm.

5) Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks - as above. You don't need this skill to be a 
helmsman.

6) Skills - Knowledge (arcana) - again, why would this be something this PrC 
would learn? They should be a spellcaster who neglects their magical studies 
to concentrate on flying spelljamming helms.

7) Skill points per level (4+Int) - this is more than clerics, sorcerers and 
wizards get. It *might* be a bit overpowered. 4+Int is what a druid gets, 
but I don't think you are aiming this PrC at them.

I would rather give this PrC limited skills but build in some sort of 
ability that helps someone to operate a helm - something that gets better 
and better as they level up.

8) Your table. I couldn't understand that at all. It was all squashed up. If 
you want to display a table, I suggest you use something like Google Docs:
http://docs.google.com/

Google docs allows you to create online documents that can be saved as DOC 
or PDF files or shared as a web page. Email me offlist if you want to a hand 
using it.

9) Spells per Day - Huh? You already said they gain spells as if they 
advanced in an existing class. If this is supposed to be spells that the 
helm *doesn't* absorb then you have written it backwards, because the 
orisons/cantrips should come first.

10) Weapon and armour proficiency - that fits in fairly well with shipboard 
life, although you might want to add belaying pin.

11) Cheat the Helm (I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this) - I 
absolutely hate this ability. Shattered Fractine did something similar for 
another PrC and I didn't like that either.

If there is a way to stop a helm absorbing spells, there should be some sort 
of cost - either to the ship (a SR penalty) or to the helmsman (maybe less 
time on the helm). Allowing certain characters and NPCs to circumvent this 
rule is just plain unfair to everyone else.

If this sort of thing was done as something like a metamagic feat (with a 
character using a 2nd level slot to retain a 1st level spell and also 
loosing SR as if they had already cast a 2nd level spell) then I'd be more 
likely to accept that it was balanced.

12) Spelljammer Defense (again I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this) - 
I absolutely love this ability. This is exactly the sort of ability you 
would get if you spent a long time practising your flying skills.

But why is it just +1 instead of +1 per level of the PrC (or =1 per 
two/three/four levels). This ability should get better as the character 
spends more time in the PrC.

13) Piloting Mastery (I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this). I like 
this, although I don't like the name (I'd prefer something like "Helm 
Mastery"). However, I feel that this should be a feat available to all 
helmsmen that meet certain requirements.

14) Extra Maneuver (I'm not sure what level the PrC gains this). I like 
this, but don't like the way it is written.

What does "...at -5 to the Pilot SJ roll." mean? You don't normally make 
rolls to manouver.

I think you should give this a DC and have players make a roll above the DC 
to get an extra manouver. This might even be something that you can do with 
just the skill (rather than with the PrC). It might also be something that a 
feat could unlock in the skill.

15) Ride the Stellar Wind (another ability where I'm not sure of the PrC 
level). Is this actually related to stellar activity? If so does that mean 
that it only works in crystal spheres with suns? Does it mean that it 
doesn't work outside crystal spheres?

I think this should be given a different name that has nothing to do with 
suns. Again this is something that could be a feat rather than part of a 
PrC.

I even think that there could be a metamagic feat that allows helmsmen to 
push spells into a helm faster than normal (and maybe halve their time on 
the helm to improve their SR).

BTW: Beyond the Moons have decided to replace the term "Ship's Raiting" with 
"Tactical Raiting" in order to avoid confusing with spell resistance.

16) Second Chance (again I don't know when a PC get this) - I like the 
ability, but don't like the name (which implies you are doing this twice). 
This seems like the granted power of the "Luck" domain, so I think a title 
with luck in it would be better.

How about "Helmsman's Luck".

I'd probably boost this ability and allow a helmsman to reroll any roll 
related to flying the ship (i.e. saving throws, spelljammer shock saving 
throws rolls or any other sort of rolls you can thing of).

17) Spelljammer Specialization (I'm not sure when the PrC gets this) - I 
like this, but it should definately should be a feat that any helmsman can 
take.

18) Strengthen the Ship (I'm not sure when the PrC gets this) - Ships are 
not constructs - the are attended items. I think that in 3/3.5e the helmsman 
should be rolling all the saving throws for the ship anyway (and the boss of 
the weapon crew should be rolling attack rolls).

Strengthen the Ship, IMO, should boost saving throws. Maybe +1 per level of 
the PrC. However, we really need to agree on a ship combat system for 3e, 
before we can talk about this.

19) Spelljamming Evasion (I'm not sure when the PrC gets this). Given that 
most ship's weapons have slow rates of fire, I think that once per round 
might be a bit excessive.

I think that this should be folded into the Second Chance ability and made 
into something that works once per day. (You already have Spelljammer 
Defense to protect the ship.)

20) Spelljammer Ace Bonus Feats - I'm not really sure if you need bonus 
feats as well as the other abilities. But if you do have them the ones that 
don't specifically apply to flying the ship should all be dumped.

There is no logic for members of this PrC to learn how to fire ship's 
weapons So Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, 
Rapid Shot, Manyshot and Shot on the Run don't make sense. They should be 
included in a Weaponmaster PrC.

Improved Boarding and Quick Draw don't make sense for someone who spends all 
their time sitting in a helm.

Even Slow Respiration, Space Mariner and Magical Aptitude are questionable.

I've mostly pulled this apart, otherwise I'd say "apart from that it's 
fine". :-)

I do think there is some gold in this PrC. But I also think that we need to 
finish a lot more of the BtM conversion PDFs before we have the foundation 
on which we can build PrC abilities.

David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
http://www32.brinkster.com/virtualeclipse/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loki" <george.williams.iv@?????.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:38 PM
Subject: [SPELLJAMMER] Spelljammer Ace reboot


> Okay, this is the latest iteration of this Prestige Class. It began as a
> piece done by Andy Collins in his (controversial) take on SJ for 3rd
> Edition. Then Bongo Dave on the Spelljammer Yahoo Group tweaked it adding
> the Cheat The Helm mechanic, one of my all time favorite innovations.
>
> Anyway, I rearranged a lot, added, subtracted and now present:
> Loki's Version of Bongo Dave's reboot of Andy Collins' Spelljammer Ace.
>
> Please examine and critique honestly, you know where to send the hatemail.
> Spelljammer Ace Hit Die
>
> d6
> Requirements
>
> To qualify to become a spelljammer ace, a character must fulfill all of 
> the
> following criteria.
> Skills
>
> Pilot Spelljammer 7 ranks, Concentration 5 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks,
> Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
> Feats
>
> Spacefarer
> Spells
>
> Ability to cast at least one arcane or divine spell of 2nd level or 
> higher.
> Class Skills
>
> The spelljammer ace 's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) 
> are
> Bluff <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/bluff.htm> (Cha), ,
> Concentration<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/concentration.htm>(Con),
> Knowledge <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm> (Arcana,
> Wildspace, Phlogiston, Individual Sphere) (Int), Pilot Spelljammer (Int),
> Profession <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm> (Spacehand,
> Wildspace Navigator, Phlogiston Navigator) (Wis),
> Spellcraft<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/spellcraft.htm>(Int)
> Skill Points at Each Level
>
> 4 + Int modifier.
> Table: The Spelljammer Ace  Level Base
> Attack Bonus Fort
> Save Ref
> Save Will
> Save Special Spells per Day  1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Cheat The Helm, Spelljammer
> Defense +1 level of existing class  2nd +1 +0 +3 +3 Piloting Mastery +1
> level of existing class  3rd +1 +1 +3 +3 Extra Maneuver, Bonus Feat +1 
> level
> of existing class  4th +2 +1 +4 +4 Ride The Stellar Wind +1 level of
> existing class  5th +2 +1 +4 +4 Second Chance +1 level of existing class
> 6th +3 +2 +5 +5 Spelljammer Specialization, Bonus Feat +1 level of 
> existing
> class  7th +3 +2 +5 +5 Extra Maneuver +1 level of existing class  8th +4 
> +2
> +6 +6 Ride The Stellar Wind +1 level of existing class  9th +4 +3 +6
> +6 Strengthen
> The Ship, Bonus feat +1 level of existing class  10th +5 +3 +7 +7 
> Spelljammer
> Evasion +1 level of existing class  Class Features
>
> All of the following are Class Features of the Spelljamming Ace prestige
> class.
>
> *Weapon and Armor Proficiency:* The Spelljamming Ace gains proficiency 
> with
> the cutlass, saber, and starwheel pistol.
> Spells per Day
>
> When a new Spelljammer Ace level is gained, the character gains new spells
> per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he 
> belonged
> to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other
> benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an 
> increased
> effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one
> spellcasting class before becoming a Spelljammer Ace, he must decide to
> which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per
> day.
>
>
>
> *Cheat the Helm (Su):*
> Through skill and practice, the Spelljammer Ace learns to retain some of 
> his
> lower level spells, "cheating the helm" of some of his magic, which he can
> still use after leaving the helm. This does not alter the way SR is
> calculated because it does not effect caster levels.
>
> Adepts, wizards and divine casters must choose which spells are retained.
>   Spell Level  SJ Ace Level 0 1 2 3 4 5  1 All            2 All 1
> 3 All 2          4 All 2 1        5 All 2 2        6 All 2 2 1      7 All 
> 2
> 2 2      8 All 2 2 2 1    9 All 2 2 2 2    10 All 2 2 2 2 1
>
>
>
> *Spelljammer Defense (Ex):* +1 dodge bonus to ship's AC per Spelljammer 
> Ace
> Level. You lose it if you're in shock, etc.
>
> *Piloting Mastery (Ex):* Can take 10 on Pilot Splljammer rolls even under
> adverse circumstances.
>
> *Extra Maneuver (Ex):* At 3rd one extra maneuver per round, at -5 to the
> Pilot SJ roll. Allows an extra side of hex facing in a turn. The penality
> reduces to 0 at 7th
>
> *Ride The Stellar Wind (Su):* +1 SR at 4th lvl, +2 at 8th
>
> *Second Chance (Ex): *A free reroll of any Pilot check you just made, 
> 1/day.
>
>
> *Spelljammer Specialization (Ex)*: +4 to Pilot checks with 1 type/class of
> ship (i.e. Elven Man 'O War).
>
> *Strengthen the Ship (Su): *Use your will save in place of the ship's 
> save,
> regardless of the save type required. Results are the same if you fail.
>
> *Spelljamming Evasion (Ex):* You may attempt a Pilot check to negate any 
> hit
> on your vessel. The DC is equal to the attack roll that hit. Success means
> no damage, 1/round.
>
> *Spelljammer Ace Bonus Feats: *
> Phlogiston Sense, Skill Focus (Pilot Spelljammer), Improved Boarding,
> Improved Shear Attack, Freefall, Ramming Focus, Ramming Specialiazation,
> Ramming Expert, Slow Respiration, Space Mariner, Magical Aptitude, Quick
> Draw, Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot,
> <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot> Far
> Shot<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#farShot> ,
> Precise Shot <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#preciseShot> , Improved
> Precise Shot <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedPreciseShot> , 
> Rapid
> Shot <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#rapidShot> ,
> Manyshot<http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#manyshot>,
> Shot On The Run <http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#shotOnTheRun>
>
>
> -- 
>  Loki, List Ogre for the Spelljammer Yahoo Group
>
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