Re: Should I make SJ "cards" using 3d or cartoon art, folks? :)

Actually the best thing to do is put this sort of stuff on Beyond the Moons 
and not draw the attention of the Wizards of the Coast lawyers.

If people are doing things that WotC don't know about they don't loose their 
right to defend their trademark status, but if you wave it in front of their 
face they have to act or face loosing control of their intellectual 
property. I think this is the legal logic that made TSR go a bit gung ho.

I once saw Terry Pratchet (doing a talk about Discworld and fantasy writing) 
and he said he deliberately avoids visiting any Discworld fan websites so 
that he doesn't have to take anyone to court to retain his rights.

If you go hunting for a definite answer from WotC it might not be the answer 
that you want to hear. But once that answer is given they will be bound to 
enforce that decison to avoid errosion of intellectual property rights.

Beyond the Moons is a legal way to put out SJ fan material, so I don't see 
any reason to rock the boat and look for other ways to do SJ stuff.

I think the best thing to do is give as much content as possible to BtM and 
only create other SJ websites if you have a specific need to *not* put stuff 
on BtM. (A website that has a new crystal sphere based around a home brew 
groundling world would be something that might work better as a stand alone 
website.)

If you don't create websites that cause WotC to loose sales and you are not 
making a profit from a website then I can't see any reason for WotC to want 
to take you to court (or think that they might be able to recover money from 
you). I can't see WotC taking on fan websites unless they do something that 
they have been told not too.

But if you really want to pursue this line, I'd advise talking to a lawyer 
who understands RPGs, and the ESD Conversion Agreement, rather than WotC 
themselves. If you talk to someone independent, they can tell you if you 
face opening a kettle of worms *before* you open that kettle.

David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
http://www32.brinkster.com/virtualeclipse/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loki" <george.williams.iv@?????.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] Should I make SJ "cards" using 3d or cartoon art, 
folks? :)


> Does anyone know who at WOTC to ask for an actual answer (with an email or
> paper trail)? Probably the simplest way.
> -Loki
>
> On 3/19/07, David Shepheard <david_shepheard@???????.com> wrote:
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steven" <steven.james.1@??????????.??.uk>
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 6:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] Should I make SJ "cards" using 3d or cartoon
>> art,
>> folks? :)
>>
>>
>> >Yeah I wasn't sure about the legal stuff and wouldn't want any problems!
>> >Far
>> >as I@m aware, copyright does belong to WOTC unless I made a totally new
>> >ship, but fan art, not for profit is generally left alone as it's 
>> >counter
>> >productive to go after it (See old TSR and some comic companies getting
>> >shot
>> >in the ass by their own zealous legal suits infuriating fans)
>>
>> Wizards of the Coast bought TSR so therefore own the copyright to all of
>> TSR's material (including Spelljammer). They are now owned by Hasbro, so
>> Habro ultimately control Spelljammer until someone else comes along and
>> buys
>> it off of them.
>>
>> Non-profit material is not a legal defence as most lawsuits are based on
>> damage to the "victim" not profit of the "criminal". TSR may have got
>> stupid
>> in its last days, but WotC has brought out both the OGL and the ESD
>> Conversion Agreement to allow amateurs and even professionals to make
>> stuff
>> compatible with D&D legally. Since WotC have created routes for people to
>> do
>> things legally, I think that they may well be in a stronger position if
>> they
>> want to defend their trademark status.
>>
>> There certainly seems to be a swing towards copyright owners at the 
>> moment
>> as things like Digitial Rights Management and DVD region codes seem to
>> border on computer hacking, yet they are allowed to be inserted into
>> products. So I'd say that given that WotC have created legal routes to
>> create SJ fan material or new d20 System campaign settings people should
>> use
>> those routes and not risk a lawsuit.
>>
>> >And a big reason I'm creating the SJ stuff is to get SJ back in the lime
>> >light, which is good for everyone ;) when I post my stuff on game sites
>> >folk
>> >reminisce on playing SJ or want to play it...*cackles madly, rubbing
>> hands
>> >in Oily Villain way* ;)
>>
>> I think that is why a lot of us are on this list. But do bear in mind 
>> that
>> while all of us might think that any SJ publicity is good publicity the
>> lawyers at WotC/Hasbro are the ones that are going to decide if they want
>> to
>> take someone to court.
>>
>> >"if you build it, they will come..." hehe.
>>
>> That certainly worked for Dragonlance Nexus. However, look at it now. It
>> seems to mostly be an archive these days. It would seem that if we do get
>> a
>> commercial Spelljammer product line off the ground we may need to make
>> sure
>> that we don't compete with it in order to help it make enough of a profit
>> to
>> keep going.
>>
>> (However, given the nature of SJ, I think that if core rulebooks got 
>> sold,
>> we could still work on new crystal spheres without affecting the profits
>> of
>> the core businness. SJ is probably unique in this respect as it is a
>> campaign setting that has no borders and no ends.)
>>
>> >Anyone recall who the original artist was who designed the ships I'd 
>> >like
>> >to
>> >put a line on the cards crediting him as original artist, he (or she)
>> >really
>> >made SJ what it was because the ship designs are still freakin' 
>> >fabulous.
>>
>> I said this in my last post. I suggest you read the credits in the
>> products
>> that ships come from to look for the ships that were not in the original
>> boxed set.
>>
>> >I'd be very chuffed if Beyond the Moons hosted the cards! Woot! :)
>>
>> BtM is definately the best place for stuff like this to go to.
>>
>> In fact anything good made on this list should be sent to BtM first and 
>> in
>> the unlikely event that they don't want it the second choice should be
>> either The Drawing Board or The Lost Spheres.
>>
>> >If ya need I can give you the full artwork in Paint Shop Pro format, or
>> >whatever ye need, if you wish originals (vector work is paint shop, I 
>> >can
>> >send as Photoshop but vector work would be reduced to normal raster
>> >layers).
>> >For printing they really need to be about x3 the size they are currently
>> >(for clarity) but that's easy to do with decent art proggie.
>>
>> You seem to be pretty good about letting people borrow your artwork, so I
>> think you might want to put some sort of statement (I hesitate to call it
>> a
>> licence) on your website, telling people how and where they can use your
>> SJ
>> artwork. That way you can make sure WotC get credit for owning the
>> Spelljammer Campaign Setting, Jim Holloway gets credit for creating the
>> original ships (assuming it is one of his designs) and you get credit for
>> making 3d models of those ships. You could also ask for people to add
>> backlinks to your own website, Beyond the Moons and Wizards of the Coast
>> (the D&D page would be best).
>>
>> People might also be interested in using your 3d models to create their
>> own
>> artwork, so you could tell people how and where they can use those at the
>> same time.
>>
>> Encouraging people to create links to Beyond the Moons and WotC will
>> certainly help them to gain new visitors (giving them both more 
>> limelight)
>> and I'm sure that you would want more visitiors too.
>>
>> David "Big Mac" Shepheard
>> Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
>>
>>
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
>> http://www32.brinkster.com/virtualeclipse/
>>
>> ********************************************************************
>> The D&D Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd
>> The Spelljammer Homepage: http://www.spelljammer.org
>> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@??????.???????.com
>> with UNSUB SPELLJAMMER-L in the body of the message.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> George "Loki" Williams, writing and other abberrations
>
> Humid City
> http://humidcity.com
>
> Defend New Orleans
> http://www.defendneworleans.com
>
> Consolidated Contact Info
> http://humidcity.com/more-humidity/contact/
>
> ********************************************************************
> The D&D Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd
> The Spelljammer Homepage: http://www.spelljammer.org
> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@??????.???????.com
> with UNSUB SPELLJAMMER-L in the body of the message.
>