Re: Krynnspace

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Trampas Whiteman" <dragonhelm@??????????.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 5:08 AM

> Hey, all!  It's been some time since I've perused this list, but I've
> heard there have been some Krynnspace talk come up and I thought I'd
> address them.

Thanks for surfing by. We are ultimately aiming to create a 3e conversion of 
Spelljammer. At the moment we are hoping to use DLCS to help convert 
Krynnspace to 3rd edition rules.

Your "Dragonhelm's Guide to Krynnspace" is a great start, but we feel like 
something is missing. This something is *mostly* Krynn and it's moons. But 
the departure of the gods (something only said in your guide) is also a bit 
of a problem, because it leaves a religious void.

[snip - all great stuff that doesn't need answering]

>>I'm really beginning to understand why Dragonhelm was forced into
>>subtracting Krynn and its moons from Krynnspace. I don't especially like
> it,
>>but given the background plot of Dragonlance I can't think of a better
>>solution. (So I shouldn't really shoot the messenger who did a very good
> job
>>at salvaging what is left of the crystal sphere.)
>
> I appreciate the kind words.  :-)

You missed me several months ago when I was saying "can we have our Krynn 
back please", instead of thanking you for applying a band aid to the rest of 
Krynnspace.

> Basically, the War of Souls established that Krynn is in another part of
> the universe, taken through a portal in time and space.  It orbits a new
> sun.  The moons are re-established, as are the planets.  The
> constellations are back, though made of new stars, which suggests from a
> SJ perspective that Krynn is in a new crystal sphere.
>
> I would say that the moons are the old moons, being physical
> manifestations of the gods of magic.  The planets may be new, may be
> existing stellar bodies, or may be the old planets (though this option
> seems unlikely since moving a world drained Takhisis immensely).

Well if the planets move too then the original Krynnspace becomes an empty 
shell. (And the Radiant Triangle shrinks by a third.) I think I prefer your 
solution. DLCS doesn't help as it doesn't even mention the planets. The 
names are on the picture on page 120, but that is all the mention they get.

In fact I've always been bugged by the fact that the only Krynn 
constellations that ever get mentioned are the ones seen from Ansalon. I've 
*always* wondered what is above the northern hemisphere. Hopefully someone 
will eventually write something about Krynn's north and I'll find out. I 
can't imagine half the sky being empty. There must be something up there.

>> My main bug with this is
>>that we clearly now have two crystal spheres and I'm not sure what is in
> the
>>new crystal sphere. Page 120 of DLCS lists the constellations (moons and
>>planets) of Krynn. This is the only mention that the planets get, but it
>>suggests that the planets may have been recreated in what I'll call
>>"New-Krynnspace". (I don't know if there would be any life on New-Sirron,
>>New-Reorx, New-Chislev, New-Zivlyn and New-Shinare. They might even be
>>gigantic illusions put there to keep the groundlings happy.)
>
> This is all future history as far as Spelljammer is concerned.
> Dragonlance's timeline is around 60 years ahead of the Forgotten Realms
> and Greyhawk (rough estimate).  So a modern Krynnspace campaign would
> still be within the 4th Age.  Any adventure past the War of Souls would be
> in the future of Spelljammer, where any number of things may have changed.

Thanks for confirming that. I think we will need to do the same thing that 
the new DLCS does. That gives rules for now, but also talks about playing in 
older times. We could easily do several versions of Krynnspace that fit in 
with the Second Unhuman War, Living Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms and 
Dragonlance.

It wouldn't be too much trouble to have 3 maps of Krynnspace (with Krynn and 
its moons, without Krynn but with the moons, and without Krynn or its 
moons). And if we build a New-Krynn then we could have another map for that.

> What I did here, though, was say that yes there is another crystal sphere,
> but the world of Krynn is missing.  My intent here was to make Krynn come
> across as one of those mythical lands that sailors might explore the seas
> for, save that we're in space.

That was good, but some of us thought it would be better to replace Krynn 
with something of similar size. Krynnspace doesn't seem to work as well 
without something there.

>>It seems to me that the shape of Krynn's reformed outer planes is exactly
>>the same (at least in principle) to a crystal sphere. The fact that the
> Dome
>>of Creation, Hidden Vale and Abyss can only be breached in one place (the
>>Gate of Souls) suggests to me that the outer planes form some sort of wall
>>that keeps out planewalkers who want to get in.
>
> I would think, too, that Krynn's new crystal sphere was closed until the
> gods returned.  All part of Takhisis' plan!  ;-)

That makes sense. We won't be working on the new home of Krynn (if we go 
there at all), but that is good to know.

>>To comply with the model of planes in DLCS, I'd block direct travel
> between
>>Krynn and any other Outer Planes (i.e. you need to go via somewhere else,
>>like the astral plane). Blocking normal connections between Krynn and the
>>outer planes would explain why clerics (and since 3e all divine
>>spellcasters) would have difficulty regaining spells (from gods living in
>>the outer planes). However, I'd bend the DLCS rules to let them regain 1st
>>and 2nd level spells and try to use the Contact Home Power spell to get
> the
>>rest. Bending the rules is the only way to get divine spellcasters from SJ
>>to work when they visit groundling worlds. Without doing this Krynnspace
> (or
>>should I say New-Krynnspace as Krynn has moved to a new place) would be a
>>very boring place for a SJ cleric.
>
> Magic is one of the big issues to consider when traveling to "New
> Krynnspace" after the War of Souls.  You now have arcane and divine magic,
> and each one divided into two forms (focused godly magic and ambient
> mortal magic).  This system doesn't mesh the best with Spelljammer, which
> is another reason Krynn was isolated a bit more.

There might be seen as a problem from the Dragonlance end, but there is no 
problem from the Spelljammer end. Spelljamming is an equal opportunity 
profession. We don't care where people get their spells from. Anyone with 
spellcasting levels can have equal access to Spelljamming.

;-)

(The Ether Sea still connects Krynn to other places, although I'm not sure 
where it now is within the Ether Sea. However, if it took the gods 60 years 
to find it, I can't imagine it being the third crystal sphere down the local 
phlogiston river. I can imagine the Planescape fans getting onto Krynn 
before Spelljammer fans do. For now we are more concerned with what happens 
to Krynnspace than what happens to Krynn.)

Part of that is working out if clerics of the Krynnspace gods and Wizards of 
High Sorcery still regain their spells without Krynn's gods and Krynn's 
moons. I've posted a possible work around in another post.

(But I must admit that I might stay behind the official DL timeline, so that 
I can continue to land spelljamming ships on Ansalon and Talidas.)

> Anyway, some interesting ideas you have here.  You may want to write them
> up and submit them to Static at Beyond the Moons.

We will do when we finish thrashing them about. There is tons more stuff on 
the Realmspace page than the Krynnspace page.

:-(

Forgotten Realms is really lucky. It got Kara-Tur, Maztica, Al-Qadim and The 
Horde to bolt onto its empty areas and it gets much more PR from WotC than 
Dragonlance does. At least Dragonlance is getting a film (even if it is a 
cartoon and I won't get to see Lucy Lawless).

I'd like to help make a 3e Krynnspace if I can work out how to do that 
without stepping on anybody's toes.

> (And if I've missed any part of the discussion previously, I apologize.
> Haven't had the most time for Spelljammer of late.  *blushes*)

Don't worry. I'm catching up on 2000 posts myself!

I'm kind of glad that you missed my "can we have our Krynn back please" 
comments although I better apologise before you Google it.

David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
http://www32.brinkster.com/virtualeclipse/