Re: Neogi and Umber Hulks - air breathing?

That's usually how I use them in a given campaign. The ruthless traders
and slavers angle can be very nasty. Which reminds me, I need to to read
over the Experts 3.5 book I just got in. I've started to and eventually
I will be gettig up to the chapter that slavers in it.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven <steven.james.1@??????????.??.uk>
To: SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com
Sent: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:11:32 +0100
Subject: Re: Neogi and Umber Hulks - air breathing?


Lords of Madness describe them as having active trading on normal worlds,
which makes sense, terrestrial neogi would buy slaves, scout out new targets
etc, trade slaves, items and info to space based brethren.

An neogi clan would thus I think, likely have agents on worlds, and deal
with other neogi to.
I see them as "Ferrengi Scumbags" of trading, space being a great way to
reach new markets/victims.

:)

-----------------------------------------------------------
I'd rather be a Fool who believes in Dragons,
Than a King who believes in Nothing.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Spelljammer Setting Discussion
[mailto:SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com] On Behalf Of Dreamer
Sent: 08 July 2006 21:07
To: SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com
Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] Neogi and Umber Hulks - air breathing?

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Sat 08 Jul, Matt Hoffman wrote:
> On Jul 8, 2006, at 3:56 AM, Dreamer wrote:
> 
> > How about we say it is a non-combat effect, such as the neogi
> > being able to put themselves (and maybe even their umber hulk
> > servants?) into a death-like suspended animation trance that
> > reduces their air consumption to almost nothing?  Maybe a side-
> > effect of their (Slow inducing) poison?
> 
> Well, it should be noted that the Mindspider (I think it was the 
> Mindspider?) reference assumes they *do* use air, even if their math is 
> wonky. So stretching to accomodate a one-time possibly erroneous 
> allusion to an ability that doesn't exist is a bit much.

Aww! [grin]


> > Could they also do this to slaves?
> 
> Clearly not, since the ship description explains alludes to the fact 
> that the slaves still need to breathe.

Certainly if you want to get work out of them, I'd expect they
need to breathe.


> > (Presumably such a trance would also greatly reduce food and
> > water use.)
> 
> See, now you're prancing off into non-official rules creation  :-p

How else do you think new rules get to be created? [grin]


> > If they can do this then they can probably wake themselves, and
> > their umber hulks, pretty fast.
> 
> The main problem I have with this idea is that it doesn't fit with the 
> Neogi personality. If a Neogi has this ability... why would he ever use 
> it? Entering into a hibernative trance would not be desirable at all to 
> a paranoid Neogi, air conservation or no. It leaves them vulnerable to 
> attack (especially if their umber hulk slaves are also in a trance!) 
> from both revolting slaves and rival neogi.

Actually, Neogi think of all things including themselves as
property, if I understand their write-up correctly.

So, if their Overmaster orders them to make themselves helpless,
then they are very likely to follow orders.  And if the
Overmaster orders all unnecessary neogi and their umber hulks
into a hibernative trance, they will have little choice except to
obey.  The Overmaster would likely order all neogi + UH remaining
active to not harm any inactive ones, so they would feel
reasonably safe.

If this was done it would greatly increase the numbers that could
be crammed into a SJ ship - slaves in a hibernative trance also
can't escape.  You'd just need a 'night watch' of active neogi
and UH, almost certainly including the Overmaster.


> > On the other hand, neogi have the ability to Charm Monster,
> > probably at will, on Umber Hulks, and the ability to cast spells
> > needing gestures (somatic), even though they don't have hands,
> > and these are abilities only mentioned in the text.  I could
> > imagine someone missing what they might think a minor ability.
> > The monster description (on LotV, pg.36-37) does not say anything
> > about them not needing to breathe, though.
> 
> They can "charm monster"? I'm not familiar with that ability...

See other posting.


> Also, there are texts that describe Neogi wielding weapons and using 
> items, so clearly they have some ability to manipulate objects with 
> their limbs. The artistic representations we of the Neogi vary wildly; 
> some pictures show small claws at the ends of their spiderian limbs, 
> while others show nothing of the kind.

The basic description says 'small claws', and also says they rely
on UH for any deterity, and as a 'useful set of hands'.

They have limited manipulative ability, but I'm guessing they are
using the same trick as other magic-users without hands to avoid
the need for gestures.


> > It is also interesting that the rules say in one place that neogi
> > use paired Lifejammer Helms (CoAS, pg.39), and in another that
> > they use Major (SJ) Helms (LotV, pg.37) for the Mindspider.
> >
> > Maybe they use either, depending on which neogi group it is?
> 
> Yeah, they use either  :)  War Captain's Companion lists most Neogi 
> ships, IIRC, as being able to support various helm-types.

I need to study that...


There are a number of interesting things about Neogi, and their
relationship to Umber Hulks, often considered one of those
creatures created by ancient wizards into monster building.

Neogi live on ships, never on worlds, are interested in slaves,
have very strong ideas about property including considering
themselves to be such, and seem related to spiders.  What race
might have created them, and might want them to stay off worlds,
and maybe supply them with slaves?

Drow.

These don't seem to go spelljamming, but pawns like neogi, who
would automatically consider themselves to be drow property... 
Maybe even if they hadn't met any drow for generations...  For
real fun ensure the neogi can never remember who their real
masters are, just think they are doing things they were ordered
to by drow, because "it seemed a good idea".

Arcane would quite happily sell the drow Helms, which they then
provide to their pet neogi?


Just a thought... [grin]

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/

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