Re: Neogi and Umber Hulks - air breathing?

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Sun 09 Jul, Matt Hoffman wrote:
> On Jul 9, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Dreamer wrote:
> 
> > I was thinking more in terms of neogi who have the 'enslave'
> > ability, which as described sounds usable on just about anything,
> > without any limits of maximum numbers, or hit dice, under control
> > at once, and how this alters the balance of power in attempting
> > to plug them into a SJ campaign where they were just hand-free
> > spider-oids with umber hulk servants.
> >
> > I'm not sure how drastically other iconic SJ races have changed;
> > I got the impression Mind Flayers for example were basically
> > little different.
> >
> > In this context whether neogi need to breathe or not is chicken
> > feed, and a minor detail we could pretty easily fudge, once we
> > are clear what results we want.
> 
> Well, I think I made clear in a previous posting that I prefer the 2nd 
> edition rules and don't ever, ever play with 3rd edition. And you can 
> derive from that whatever you like, but it's not my intention to kindle 
> the flames of that old argument again  :-p 

I (think I) quite understand your point of view.


> But that having been said, 
> I will say specifically of the 3e Neogi conversion... it's poop. I 
> would suggest entirely ignoring the standard 3e Neogi, and replacing 
> its abilities with those more suited to the original 2nd edition 
> incarnation. That goes for most other Spelljammer monsters as well -- 
> I'd feel much more comfortable with SJ fans from places like this 
> mailing list handling the "official" monster conversions than those 
> hacks at Wizards of the Coast. (... okay, I'm biting my tongue, no more 
> I promise)

Are we allowed to do our own conversions, from 2ndEd to 3rdEd, if
there are 'official' versions?

I'd greatly prefer that 3rdEd SJ stand alone just relying on the
SRD, or PHB/DMG/MM, and not any extra bits with dodgy character
classes or monster conversions, even if these are 'official', but
I'm not at all sure if we can get away with this.

Of course, we can put in alternate stats for NPCs, referring to
the Complete Arcane or whatever, but I think 3rdEd SJ should be
playable with just the basic rules.

I'm currently unsure if we will have to request people get a copy
of the 2ndEd CoAS and LotV, or if we can reproduce most of the
2ndEd 'fluff', as well as putting in 3rdEd 'crunch'.


> And I'll say again that the Neogi are not entirely hand-less  :-p  
> There are multiple examples of Neogi NPCs who wield staves, and wear 
> rings and bracelets and other Magey-type magical items, in published 
> 2nd ed sources (I'm thinking of four off the top of my head... the 
> Neogi ambassador from Under the Dark Fist, the two Neogi fleet masters 
> from War Captain's Companion, and Master Coh of the Neogi Citadel 
> aboard the Spelljammer... plus a bunch more whose exact names or titles 
> I can't recall from Astromundi Cluster).
> Yeah, it probably was the original intention to have Neogi be somewhat 
> handicapped (so to speak) and rely on their Umber Hulks to hold and lug 
> stuff for them... but as time went on I think the Neogi began to be 
> treated more like most of the humanoid races of Wildspace -- for good 
> or ill, I won't say, except that I don't think the Neogi suffered at 
> all for what their intended role in the SJ campaign was.

Looks to me as though neogi have some manipulative ability, and
you could weild staves with claws or have rings on them, or
bracelets on arms/legs, but whether they could trace runes, or be
able to actually make things...

I think I'll have to consider it a borderline issue; maybe they
need their umber hulks help to put the rings and bracelets on,
maybe they don't, and maybe they can satisfy the standard somatic
component requirements, or maybe they can bypass these.  Whatever.


I wonder how attractive Polymorph Self to a form that has
dextrous digits would be to a neogi? [grin]

Or, having a mind-linked familiar or homonculi with human-grade
manipulatory ability?

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/