Re: Neogi and Umber Hulks - air breathing?

On Jul 9, 2006, at 12:53 AM, Dreamer wrote:

> I was thinking more in terms of neogi who have the 'enslave'
> ability, which as described sounds usable on just about anything,
> without any limits of maximum numbers, or hit dice, under control
> at once, and how this alters the balance of power in attempting
> to plug them into a SJ campaign where they were just hand-free
> spider-oids with umber hulk servants.
>
> I'm not sure how drastically other iconic SJ races have changed;
> I got the impression Mind Flayers for example were basically
> little different.
>
> In this context whether neogi need to breathe or not is chicken
> feed, and a minor detail we could pretty easily fudge, once we
> are clear what results we want.

Well, I think I made clear in a previous posting that I prefer the 2nd 
edition rules and don't ever, ever play with 3rd edition. And you can 
derive from that whatever you like, but it's not my intention to kindle 
the flames of that old argument again  :-p  But that having been said, 
I will say specifically of the 3e Neogi conversion... it's poop. I 
would suggest entirely ignoring the standard 3e Neogi, and replacing 
its abilities with those more suited to the original 2nd edition 
incarnation. That goes for most other Spelljammer monsters as well -- 
I'd feel much more comfortable with SJ fans from places like this 
mailing list handling the "official" monster conversions than those 
hacks at Wizards of the Coast. (... okay, I'm biting my tongue, no more 
I promise)

And I'll say again that the Neogi are not entirely hand-less  :-p  
There are multiple examples of Neogi NPCs who wield staves, and wear 
rings and bracelets and other Magey-type magical items, in published 
2nd ed sources (I'm thinking of four off the top of my head... the 
Neogi ambassador from Under the Dark Fist, the two Neogi fleet masters 
from War Captain's Companion, and Master Coh of the Neogi Citadel 
aboard the Spelljammer... plus a bunch more whose exact names or titles 
I can't recall from Astromundi Cluster).
Yeah, it probably was the original intention to have Neogi be somewhat 
handicapped (so to speak) and rely on their Umber Hulks to hold and lug 
stuff for them... but as time went on I think the Neogi began to be 
treated more like most of the humanoid races of Wildspace -- for good 
or ill, I won't say, except that I don't think the Neogi suffered at 
all for what their intended role in the SJ campaign was.