Re: 3e SJ combat and needed stats

On 5/10/06, Dreamer <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk> wrote:
> In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Tue 09 May, Alexander James wrote:
> > I expect we can all agree it would help our cause if we used
> > the official WotC rules for our combat system: either
> > Arms&Equipment vehicles, Stormwrack narrative combat, or d20
> > Future spaceship combat rules.
I think that we should go with a sidebar that reccomends these as
optional rule systems and notes additions to each for SJ play. I think
it is questionable whether we could reprint sizeable chunks of
products currently on the market.

I think that vehicle stat blocks are pretty consistent in the info
they contain (at least in the WOTC products). We simply need to add in
a few details (i.e. helms- would fill the same stat block space as
oars/sails but have all the SJ data in the helm description.

> I would certainly think it a good idea to include some sort of
> narrative system, even if only as an add-on to using as much of
> the existing SJ combat rules as possible.
Agreed.

> > 2) the d20 future rules give all ships perfect
> > manueverability, a distinct break from SJ feel.
 So we make a notation that if using these rules you will need to add
in the optional MC class rule to preserve the feel.

> > 3) the Arms &Equipment vehicle rules use sectional hitpoints
> > that get burdensome quickly.
>
> I've seen lots of systems that get themselves in a real mess with
> sectional hit point schemes - I think there is a lot to say for
> the existing SJ hull point system.  One of its virtues is that
> even though abstract it seems to give a good 'feel' to combat,
> the ship slowly coming to pieces around you, and the numbers it
> uses are in the easily human-managable range of one or two
> digits.
That comes under the heading of a new ruleset. Everything in 3.5/d20
modern uses standard hit points. I agree that it is not a change I am
a huge fan of.
>
> > So I'll try to use overall 'fastplay' hitpoints for ships.  The
> > rest of this info applies regardless.
>From Leroy's system?


> > For those who would prefer to keep hull points, see also
> > Mongoose publishing's Seas of Blood that gives ships structure
> > dice based on size and type.
Good system!

> Are you suggesting this as inspiration, or are you suggesting we
> contact Mongoose Publishing with an eye to using their rules?
>
I would think that going with a competitor's works would quite
possibly rile up WOTC. Listing that (and Aether and Flux, and wahtever
else) in the sidebar I suggested for optional Ship Combat sytems would
be more than okay.

<snip>
I like your ramming/crashing rules. Very fine start.

> I used Cha as the stat for non-spelljamming helms used by
> non-spellcasters as it is still a mental stat, and you are using
> your mind to make the helm work, not your body and hence your
> Dex.  Also, if you look at those sort of helms, they are mostly a
> matter of controlling energy from others, sometimes a group, and
> Cha seemed suitable for that.
I just do not like opening up helms to non spell casters. It goes very
much against the grain of the original system. I know that this is one
of the ongoing arguments I have seen periodically resurface on the
list over the years and do not want to start a flame war. May I
suggest that this sort of helm be inculded as a sidebar/option?
>
> > Ship weapons: double reload time, keep crew requirement
>From Stormwrack, eh? I like thse moree myself.

<snip siege weapons>

> That sounds reasonable, but I'd prefer a bigger Range Increment
> for wildspace use.  Also, where it is a choice between physics
> and keeping the spelljamming style, I'd recommend we stick with
> the style, and game balance.
Agreed. Range increments should be extended from groundling ranges,
although I would be very careful with it. I will also throw my vote
behind the style side of the style vs. physics argument. If it were
real physics there would not be crystal spheres, gravity planes, etc.


> Seige weapons in the DMG specifically disallow adding the BAB.
<Snip>
> The DMG under Seige Weapons suggests that Profession (seige
> engineer) gives the right skills.
Thats what I have used in my campaigns and it seems to work well
without adding a huge amount of bookkeeping (or mucking down combat)

George "Loki" Williams, writing and other abberrations
PEACH- Please Examine and Critique Honestly

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