Re: 3rdEd Bard/Druid/Paladin/Ranger etc spells - 1st draft

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Sat 06 May, Alexander James wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> > In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Thu 04 May, Alexander James wrote:
> >> Second look reply in step with comments.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> >> > In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Wed 03 May, Alexander James wrote:
> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
[snip]

> >> >> > Decrease Maneuverability - Decreases the MC of a ship.
> >> >> > Enhance Maneuverability - Increases the MC of a ship.
[snip]

> > 2ndEd:
> > [snip]
> > I would have thought that the material component strongly
> > suggests that this is elemental air magic.  I'm guessing the idea
> > is that magical winds either increase or decrease your MC - the
> > wind is either behind you, or blowing from in front of you.
> 
> thoose directions would try to change the speed of the vessel (which they 
> can't because speed is not transfered inside the air envelope), a head/tail 
> wind could make the sails harder to re-set, but never easier, it would be 
> easier to set rigging in a calm, but that's the natural state in space so 
> that wouldn't help.

I know the physics says that trying to use winds to interfere
with the maneuverability of a ship in wildspace is pretty stupid,
but I thought the idea was that it was the sort of symbolic logic
that would fit someone looking to alter the behaviour of a whole
ship.


> Clerics and Bards often get spells that oppose the actions of enemies or aid 
> the actions of friends, and Wizards have spells containing programmed 
> intelegence (symbols, Mage's Faithful Hound, Contingency, Mage's Private 
> Sanctum).  Druids only have two spells that care about third party actions - 
> the activation conditions of Liveoak, and the exception of natural plantlife 
> from Firestorm.

Interesting point.  You could claim that Call Lightning includes
precise manipulation of elemental conditions already there. 
Spike Stone interferes with an element there to impede movement. 
I'd expect Sleet Storm to mess up people trying to steer a ship. 
Is Enhance/Decrease Maneuverability a sort of Control Winds?

Imagine if your air envelope behaved as if it were part of a
storm, even though no air was actually blowing into in, or out
of, it.

Maybe druids should only get Decrease Maneuverability?  Should we
go with that?


> > Do you think that I reading too much into the material component,
> > which can be a rather chancy way of working things out about a
> > spell?
>
> It is certainly reasonable, the components are symbolically linked to the 
> result or method of the spell's action in some way.  It may well be an 
> air/wind mechanism that the spell uses, but it's much smarter in the 
> application of that effect than any other druid spell.
[snip]

I thought that the logic might be 'favourable weather', say an
even wind from a useful direction, that let you maneuver your
ship easier, or 'bad weather', say lots of little buffets or
vorticies, that made it more difficult.  Druids are the ones with
control of the elements.

Good or bad weather wouldn't be seen as things that have
programmed intelligence, I'm guessing.

Of course, when you look at ships that don't rely on sails to
maneuver, all this logic falls over!  But, you've got the spell,
so little details like that can be ignored, can't they? [grin]


> > In my original version paladins neither had Create Portal nor
> > Create Minor Helm, but it seemed rather unfair, and I could see
> > their associated clerics petitioning their power or god to make
> > their paladin's magic more useful in wildspace.
> 
> Since they wont get it until 11th - 13th level, it's not too big of an 
> issue.  Any party with one should have a caster that can use the full 
> stength version anyhow.

It depends how much you see paladins as leaders of groups of
warriors going about doing the deeds of good, and how much you
see them as solitary.  They should be able to get by without a
cleric at higher levels.  If the first then Create Minor Helm
makes sense, if the second then they should be far more concerned
about just getting themselves around in wildspace.

One of my tests while thinking about this is whether you see the
paladin as having to carry loads of clerical scrolls of level of
divine spells that they can cast, such as Create Portal or Create
Minor Helm, just to get by.  If you find this is the case then
things need a re-think.


> Imc any paladin that needs more magic is assigned a cleric to cast that 
> magic for him.
> 
> Or, similar to someone's prestige class posted some time ago, allow SJing 
> paladins to swap out their special mount for a light fighter vessel complete 
> with minor helm.
[snip]

I'd be more in favour of a mount that counted as a one ton SJ
vessel, and was capable of spelljamming speed.  I wouldn't give
them a vessel - far too much a change of style.  Not sure what
happens to the paladin's squire, though.

The other alternative would be some sort of spelljamming aura,
that would allow a group of horsemen to gallop together through
space, either at tactical or spelljamming speeds, as long as they
stayed reasonably close to the paladin.

Maybe you could say that the paladin's aura also meant that they
could ignore the need to keep track of air, for simplicity.

You could give this to paladins as a use-once-a-day 4th level
divine spell effect of some sort, Wildspace Ride.  Maybe.


I find it helpful to think about what sort of shape you might
want the adventure to take, its look-and-feel.  Which is what I
believe was the original motivation for the idea of Spelljamming
- flying through space standing on the open deck of a sailing
ship.

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/