Re: 3rdEd Bard/Druid/Paladin/Ranger etc spells - 1st draft

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Thu 04 May, Alexander James wrote:
>> Second look reply in step with comments.
>
> Thanks!
>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
>> > In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Wed 03 May, Alexander James wrote:
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> [snip]
>
>> >> > 4th-Level Druid Spells
> [snip]
>
>> >> > Decrease Maneuverability - Decreases the MC of a ship.
>> >> > Enhance Maneuverability - Increases the MC of a ship.
>> >>
>> >> If given to druids at all (likely to compensate for lack of plants),
>> >> should
>> >> be higher level than wizards - i.e. 6th
>> >
>> > It is air and hence elemental magic, which I thought druids got
>> > at -1 level on wizards?
>>
>> I'd always seen this as gumming up the manuevering controls: lines get
>> knotted, oars stick in the rollocks, rudder stiffens, etc. Or a more 
>> etheric
>> method of increasing the momentum of the vessel such that the mystic 
>> force
>> being channeled through the physical form of the ship (like manouevering
>> jets on spacecraft) is less able to affect the final vector of travel.
>> The CoAS does say that the air envelope doesn't turn with the vessel, so
>> maybe you turn by turning your air.  So an 'air-thinning' effect so you
>> can't move it as well, or an air-glueing so that it won't move as much 
>> can
>> also reduce the manueverability of a vessel.  But both of these are 
>> exotic
>> effects, a directed Control Winds -like power could damage the 
>> manuevouering
>> elements, or even cause the ship to heel to one side (constantly turning, 
>> by
>> vortexing around the ship), but a pure resistance to manouevering doesn't
>> seem like a very air-based effect imho.
> [snip]
>
> 2ndEd:
> [snip]
> I would have thought that the material component strongly
> suggests that this is elemental air magic.  I'm guessing the idea
> is that magical winds either increase or decrease your MC - the
> wind is either behind you, or blowing from in front of you.
thoose directions would try to change the speed of the vessel (which they 
can't because speed is not transfered inside the air envelope), a head/tail 
wind could make the sails harder to re-set, but never easier, it would be 
easier to set rigging in a calm, but that's the natural state in space so 
that wouldn't help.
Clerics and Bards often get spells that oppose the actions of enemies or aid 
the actions of friends, and Wizards have spells containing programmed 
intelegence (symbols, Mage's Faithful Hound, Contingency, Mage's Private 
Sanctum).  Druids only have two spells that care about third party actions - 
the activation conditions of Liveoak, and the exception of natural plantlife 
from Firestorm.

>
> Do you think that I reading too much into the material component,
> which can be a rather chancy way of working things out about a
> spell?
It is certainly reasonable, the components are symbolically linked to the 
result or method of the spell's action in some way.  It may well be an 
air/wind mechanism that the spell uses, but it's much smarter in the 
application of that effect than any other druid spell.

>
>[snip]
>> >> > 4th-Level Paladin Spells
>> >> > Create Minor Helm - Makes a temporary minor helm.
>> >>
>> >> as a Minor Living Helm spell, or something that can only be used on a
>> >> Quest.
>> >> Unrestricted access to travel is not a Paladin thing
>> >
>> > I thought that the Create Minor Helm spell could have a paladin
>> > bit added, to the effect that the helm gets a free overwatch from
>> > their deity/power, or a servant of, and the paladin is judged on
>> > how it is used.  The idea was that the paladin needs to travel,
>> > but it is definitely not unrestricted.
>>
>> A paladin is already judged on everything they do and on every spell they
>> cast, that it must fit with the paladin's code
>>
>> Now (in 3.5e) that even the special mount has been reduced to a 
>> combat-based
>> ability with limited applications to overland travel (only lasts for 2hrs 
>> a
>> level), paladins are forced to resort to normal modes of travel that any
>> fighter could use.  - Maybe we could give the paladinic version of this
>> spell a duration of only 1 day, rather than the day or week per level of 
>> the
>> higher level Clr, Drd, Brd, and Sor/Wiz versions to reflect this 
>> limitation
>> of the class.
>
> I've added the following paragraph to the spell:
>
> "The paladin version of this spell is a special blessing
> conferred on them by their power or god, and the use this is put
> to is carefully observed by (a servant of) that power or god, for
> violations of the paladin's code of conduct."
>
> Which I think makes things a _bit_ stricter for them.
>
> And, we could say that the paladin version of the spell only
> lasts 1 day/level, as the other divine spellcasters version does
> if they don't provide a seat focus.
>
>
>> Since it's a travelling spell, why didn't you give it to Rangers?
>
> Maybe I am being unfair to Rangers, but I thought they got druid
> spells, and a two level reduction from Drd 6 seemed too much.
>
> Also, I didn't think they got quite as much direct support from
> the powers or god they followed as did paladins, so I thought
> giving them a Helm spell seemed a bit of a push, even though
> travel spells suit them.
Although paladins have been known to get direct support from their diety, 
the lifestyle of most rangers puts them in close contact with the natural 
force generally powering their spells (rangers with gods almost never get 
direct support, no).  Since they do have Softwood, and Jump, it can be 
argued that rangers don't need a better way to travel.  And the Create ~ 
Helm spells are about moving the whole party, which rangers aren't that good 
at, overall there is reason to leave it out of the ranger list.

>
> Do you think we should strech a point here and give rangers this
> spell?  If so, should it be trimmed back in some way, just as the
> paladin version is?
a trimmed version of the spell is certainly fitting if they get it at all

>
>
>> >> > Create Portal - Opens a portal in the adjacent crystal shell.
>> >>
>> >> also, with quest restrictions (even as simple as chasing the villan)
>> >
>> > Do you think this needs to be added as an addendum to the spell
>> > spec, or left for the DM to work out?
>>
>> since you've got Locate Portal already, this is just saving about 10 days 
>> or
>> so of travel.  No current paladin spells are based on catching up with
>> things, only on finding them, so I'd even go as far as to tsay they
>> shouldn't get this.
>
> There is no guarantee that a portal exists within any reasonable
> travel time - it is even possible that this is a crystal sphere
> that you only get into or out of by creating your own portal.
point

>
> I thought that as clerics got the spell, and it is part of the
> basic tools for getting around in wildspace, that it probably
> fitted for paladins to have it.
>
> If paladins get Create Minor Helm then I thought it was only
> reasonable that they get Create Portal with it, a somewhat lower
> powered wildspace travel spell.
>
>
> In my original version paladins neither had Create Portal nor
> Create Minor Helm, but it seemed rather unfair, and I could see
> their associated clerics petitioning their power or god to make
> their paladin's magic more useful in wildspace.
Since they wont get it until 11th - 13th level, it's not too big of an 
issue.  Any party with one should have a caster that can use the full 
stength version anyhow.
Imc any paladin that needs more magic is assigned a cleric to cast that 
magic for him.
Or, similar to someone's prestige class posted some time ago, allow SJing 
paladins to swap out their special mount for a light fighter vessel complete 
with minor helm.

>
>
>> A variant spell that opens the way between you and a moving target 
>> (villan)
>> you are trying to apprehend, through any obstical (locked door, keyed
>> portal, crytal sphere, etc.) would be much more appropriate.  We should
>> check if such a spell exists in Complete Divine, the Spell Compendium, or
>> the Book of Exalted Deeds and just list it in the "spacer's new uses for 
>> old
>> groundling spells" section that it would also open portals in a sphere.
> [snip]
>
> I've done my best to resist adding new spells.
>
> Unless the spell is in the PHB I agree with you that the best we
> can do is to use it as inspiration for a 'sidebar' spell.
>
> -- 
> Dreamer
> dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
> http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/