Re: 3rdEd Bard/Druid/Paladin/Ranger etc spells - 1st draft

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Thu 04 May, Alexander James wrote:
> Second look reply in step with comments.

Thanks!


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> > In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Wed 03 May, Alexander James wrote:
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
[snip]

> >> > 4th-Level Cleric Spells
> >> > Create Portal - Opens a portal in the adjacent crystal shell.
> >>
> >> clerics in general don't often get travel spells earlier than wizards, 
> >> just bigger ones later.  I'd match 5th Wiz & Clr
> >
> > So that would make it:
> >
> > Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Clr 5, Brd 4, Drd 4, Pal 4, Rgr 4, Wildspace 4
> >
> > You don't think that it makes sense for it to be 4th, so as to
> > match Druid, Paladin and Ranger?
> 
> Rangers get spells for travelling through natural areas readily, and it's a 
> Wildspace travel effect; so seeing how it was only a Wiz 5 in the CoAS and 
> not available to divine casters (closer to Teleport than Dimension Door) It 
> may be more appropriate to make it Sor/Wiz 5, Brd 5, Clr 5, Drd 5, Rgr 4, 
> Wildsapce 4.
> 
> > I thought 4th so as to be one level lower than Create Minor Helm,
> > at 5th.
> 
> a definate argument there.
[snip]

I'd plan at leaving it as 4th unless I hear other objections.


> > What does 'COMMUNITY' mean in this context?  There isn't a
> > Clerical domain called that in my PHB.  Are you referring to
> > people on this SJ mailing list?

> >
> > This would be a Sidebar spell, if it was added - I'd suggest it
> > goes in a seperate area rather than the CoAS spell conversion.
> 
> That's what I meant, it is a good sidebar, variant spell written by us, the 
> SJ community.
[snip]

This is the spell sketch that I've currently got filed in the
'Spell Ideas' folder:

Trance of the Empty Night [clr 5]: combines Non-Breathing and
indefinite hibernation with added immunity to incidental harm
(great resistance, DR 15/magic and-or evil) until returning to
fresh air. This is the non-druid equivalent of Softwood, that
doesn't resist re-entry as Softwood does. Author: Alexander
James.


> >> > 4th-Level Druid Spells
[snip]

> >> > Decrease Maneuverability - Decreases the MC of a ship.
> >> > Enhance Maneuverability - Increases the MC of a ship.
> >>
> >> If given to druids at all (likely to compensate for lack of plants), 
> >> should
> >> be higher level than wizards - i.e. 6th
> >
> > It is air and hence elemental magic, which I thought druids got
> > at -1 level on wizards?
>
> I'd always seen this as gumming up the manuevering controls: lines get 
> knotted, oars stick in the rollocks, rudder stiffens, etc. Or a more etheric 
> method of increasing the momentum of the vessel such that the mystic force 
> being channeled through the physical form of the ship (like manouevering 
> jets on spacecraft) is less able to affect the final vector of travel.
> The CoAS does say that the air envelope doesn't turn with the vessel, so 
> maybe you turn by turning your air.  So an 'air-thinning' effect so you 
> can't move it as well, or an air-glueing so that it won't move as much can 
> also reduce the manueverability of a vessel.  But both of these are exotic 
> effects, a directed Control Winds -like power could damage the manuevouering 
> elements, or even cause the ship to heel to one side (constantly turning, by 
> vortexing around the ship), but a pure resistance to manouevering doesn't 
> seem like a very air-based effect imho.
[snip]

2ndEd:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Enhance Maneuverability
(Alteration)
Reversible

Range: 10 yards
Components: V, S, M
Duration: 1-4 rounds plus caster's level
Casting Time: 5
Area of Effect: 1 ship of up to 10 times the caster's level in tonnage
Saving Throw: None or Neg

This spell may be cast on any ship to either increase or decrease
its maneuverability class (MC).  A ship MC may only be increased
or decreased by one class using this spell.  No ship can have its
MC increased or decreased more than one class above its initial
MC, regardless of the number of Enhance Maneuverability or
Decrease Maneuverability spells cast upon it.

The material component for this spell is a vial of wind from an
air-based world.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I would have thought that the material component strongly
suggests that this is elemental air magic.  I'm guessing the idea
is that magical winds either increase or decrease your MC - the
wind is either behind you, or blowing from in front of you.

Do you think that I reading too much into the material component,
which can be a rather chancy way of working things out about a
spell?


> >> > 4th-Level Paladin Spells
> >> > Create Minor Helm - Makes a temporary minor helm.
> >>
> >> as a Minor Living Helm spell, or something that can only be used on a 
> >> Quest.
> >> Unrestricted access to travel is not a Paladin thing
> >
> > I thought that the Create Minor Helm spell could have a paladin
> > bit added, to the effect that the helm gets a free overwatch from
> > their deity/power, or a servant of, and the paladin is judged on
> > how it is used.  The idea was that the paladin needs to travel,
> > but it is definitely not unrestricted.
>
> A paladin is already judged on everything they do and on every spell they 
> cast, that it must fit with the paladin's code
> 
> Now (in 3.5e) that even the special mount has been reduced to a combat-based 
> ability with limited applications to overland travel (only lasts for 2hrs a 
> level), paladins are forced to resort to normal modes of travel that any 
> fighter could use.  - Maybe we could give the paladinic version of this 
> spell a duration of only 1 day, rather than the day or week per level of the 
> higher level Clr, Drd, Brd, and Sor/Wiz versions to reflect this limitation 
> of the class.

I've added the following paragraph to the spell:

"The paladin version of this spell is a special blessing
conferred on them by their power or god, and the use this is put
to is carefully observed by (a servant of) that power or god, for
violations of the paladin's code of conduct."

Which I think makes things a _bit_ stricter for them.

And, we could say that the paladin version of the spell only
lasts 1 day/level, as the other divine spellcasters version does
if they don't provide a seat focus.


> Since it's a travelling spell, why didn't you give it to Rangers?

Maybe I am being unfair to Rangers, but I thought they got druid
spells, and a two level reduction from Drd 6 seemed too much.

Also, I didn't think they got quite as much direct support from
the powers or god they followed as did paladins, so I thought
giving them a Helm spell seemed a bit of a push, even though
travel spells suit them.

Do you think we should strech a point here and give rangers this
spell?  If so, should it be trimmed back in some way, just as the
paladin version is?


> >> > Create Portal - Opens a portal in the adjacent crystal shell.
> >>
> >> also, with quest restrictions (even as simple as chasing the villan)
> >
> > Do you think this needs to be added as an addendum to the spell
> > spec, or left for the DM to work out?
>
> since you've got Locate Portal already, this is just saving about 10 days or 
> so of travel.  No current paladin spells are based on catching up with 
> things, only on finding them, so I'd even go as far as to tsay they 
> shouldn't get this.

There is no guarantee that a portal exists within any reasonable
travel time - it is even possible that this is a crystal sphere
that you only get into or out of by creating your own portal.

I thought that as clerics got the spell, and it is part of the
basic tools for getting around in wildspace, that it probably
fitted for paladins to have it.

If paladins get Create Minor Helm then I thought it was only
reasonable that they get Create Portal with it, a somewhat lower
powered wildspace travel spell.


In my original version paladins neither had Create Portal nor
Create Minor Helm, but it seemed rather unfair, and I could see
their associated clerics petitioning their power or god to make
their paladin's magic more useful in wildspace.


> A variant spell that opens the way between you and a moving target (villan) 
> you are trying to apprehend, through any obstical (locked door, keyed 
> portal, crytal sphere, etc.) would be much more appropriate.  We should 
> check if such a spell exists in Complete Divine, the Spell Compendium, or 
> the Book of Exalted Deeds and just list it in the "spacer's new uses for old 
> groundling spells" section that it would also open portals in a sphere.
[snip]

I've done my best to resist adding new spells.

Unless the spell is in the PHB I agree with you that the best we
can do is to use it as inspiration for a 'sidebar' spell.

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/