Re: 3rdEd Bard/Druid/Paladin/Ranger etc spells - 1st draft

Second look reply in step with comments.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Wed 03 May, Alexander James wrote:
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Bard Spells
> [snip]
>
>> > Cleric Spells
>> >
>> > 1st-Level Cleric Spells
>> > Create Air - Provides air.
>> > Locate Portal - Senses direction and distance of closest portal
>> > in the adjacent crystal shell.
>> >
>> > 2nd-Level Cleric Spells
>> > Contact Home Power - Contacts your higher power from any crystal
>> > sphere.
>> > Detect Powers - Tells you who you might draw power from in this
>> > crystal sphere.
>> >
>> > 3rd-Level Cleric Spells
>> > Chill Fire - Makes the phlogiston less flamable.
>> >
>> > 4th-Level Cleric Spells
>> > Create Portal - Opens a portal in the adjacent crystal shell.
>>
>> clerics in general don't often get travel spells earlier than wizards, 
>> just
>> bigger ones later.  I'd match 5th Wiz & Clr
>
> So that would make it:
>
> Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Clr 5, Brd 4, Drd 4, Pal 4, Rgr 4, Wildspace 4
>
> You don't think that it makes sense for it to be 4th, so as to
> match Druid, Paladin and Ranger?
Rangers get spells for travelling through natural areas readily, and it's a 
Wildspace travel effect; so seeing how it was only a Wiz 5 in the CoAS and 
not available to divine casters (closer to Teleport than Dimension Door) It 
may be more appropriate to make it Sor/Wiz 5, Brd 5, Clr 5, Drd 5, Rgr 4, 
Wildsapce 4.

>
> I thought 4th so as to be one level lower than Create Minor Helm,
> at 5th.
a definate argument there.

>
>
>> > Softwood - Places in suspended animation to protect from
>> > wildspace.
>>
>> Never was a cleric spell, the Plant sphere was only given to Druids and
>> specialist preists of nature dieties.
>> As much as it is useful in space, I can't see all clerics using this 
>> method
>> to prevent somone from suffocation.  A version of Non-breathing combined
>> with the hibernation effect (that shouldn't resist re-entry as Softwood
>> does) under a name like Trance of the Empty Night could work.  With the
>> added immunity to incidental harm (great resistance, perhaps DR 10 or
>> 15/magic and-or evil) until returning to fresh air for the multiple
>> recipients of the spell, I'd say this COMMUNITY variant spell should be
>> about 5th or even 6th cleric.
>
> CoAS pg.24 - and though I always thought it a bit of a strange
> spell, I'd greatly prefer to leave it alone, on the principle of
> minimal change.
>
> DMs that I've seen use this just seemed to say that all clerics
> could use it - the old problem of AD&D 2nd Edition doing a very
> messy merging of clerics and druids.
>
> You are quite correct - the Plant sphere, which Softwood is
> clearly listed as being in, is not accessable to other than
> druids or suitable priests of specific mythos.
>
> OK, spell leaves the cleric list.
>
> What does 'COMMUNITY' mean in this context?  There isn't a
> Clerical domain called that in my PHB.  Are you referring to
> people on this SJ mailing list?
>
> This would be a Sidebar spell, if it was added - I'd suggest it
> goes in a seperate area rather than the CoAS spell conversion.
That's what I meant, it is a good sidebar, variant spell written by us, the 
SJ community.

>
>
>> > 5th-Level Cleric Spells
>> > Create Minor Helm - Makes a temporary minor helm.
>> >
>> > 8th-Level Cleric Spells
>> > Renew Ship Atmosphere - Completely refreshes most ship's air
>> > envelope.
>> > Repair Ship - Repairs major damage to a ship, or builds a
>> > liferaft.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cleric Domains
<snip>

>> > Druid Spells
>> >
>> > 1st-Level Druid Spells
>> > Create Air - Provides air.
>> > Locate Portal - Senses direction and distance of closest portal
>> > in the adjacent crystal shell.
>> >
>> > 2nd-Level Druid Spells
>> > Chill Fire - Makes the phologiston less flamable.
>> > Contact Home Power - Contacts your higher power from any crystal
>> > sphere.
>> > Detect Powers - Tells you who you might draw power from in this
>> > crystal sphere.
>> >
>> > 3rd-Level Druid Spells
>> > Softwood - Places in suspended animation to protect from
>> > wildspace.
>>
>> should stay at 4th druid, just like 2e.  It's terrestial counterparts for
>> waiting out harsh conditions are also 4th level (Mongoose MGP4010 -
>> Hibernation, Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed - Woodlands Prison)
>
> CoAS doesn't list any druid spells, that I am familiar with...
>
> I've re-read the CoAS spec, and I see what you mean, as I discuss
> under Cleric, above.
>
> You are quite right; there are now no Drd 3 spells.
>
>
>> > 4th-Level Druid Spells
>> > Create Portal - Opens a portal in the adjacent crystal shell.
>>
>> the tree stride of space, definate must
>
> I was a bit iffy about this, but crystal shells are natural
> things, as is the phlogiston, and druids would be crippled
> without it.
>
>
>> > Decrease Maneuverability - Decreases the MC of a ship.
>> > Enhance Maneuverability - Increases the MC of a ship.
>>
>> If given to druids at all (likely to compensate for lack of plants), 
>> should
>> be higher level than wizards - i.e. 6th
>
> It is air and hence elemental magic, which I thought druids got
> at -1 level on wizards?
I'd always seen this as gumming up the manuevering controls: lines get 
knotted, oars stick in the rollocks, rudder stiffens, etc. Or a more etheric 
method of increasing the momentum of the vessel such that the mystic force 
being channeled through the physical form of the ship (like manouevering 
jets on spacecraft) is less able to affect the final vector of travel.
The CoAS does say that the air envelope doesn't turn with the vessel, so 
maybe you turn by turning your air.  So an 'air-thinning' effect so you 
can't move it as well, or an air-glueing so that it won't move as much can 
also reduce the manueverability of a vessel.  But both of these are exotic 
effects, a directed Control Winds -like power could damage the manuevouering 
elements, or even cause the ship to heel to one side (constantly turning, by 
vortexing around the ship), but a pure resistance to manouevering doesn't 
seem like a very air-based effect imho.

>
>
>> > 6th-Level Druid Spells
>> > Create Minor Helm - Makes a temporary minor helm.
>> >
>> > 7th-Level Druid Spells
>> > Renew Ship Atmosphere - Completely refreshes most ship's air envelope.
>> > Repair Ship - Repairs major damage to a ship, or builds a liferaft.
>> >
>> >
>> > Paladin Spells
>> >
>> > 1st-Level Paladin Spells
>> > Create Air - Provides air.
>> >
>> > 2nd-Level Paladin Spells
>> > Contact Home Power - Contacts your higher power from any crystal
>> > sphere.
>> > Detect Powers - Tells you who you might draw power from in this
>> > crystal sphere.
>> > Locate Portal - Senses direction and distance of closest portal
>> > in the adjacent crystal shell.
>> >
>> > 3rd-Level Paladin Spells
>> > Chill Fire - Makes the phlogiston less flamable.
>>
>> they like destroying things, and healing, and making strong enough to
>> survive - this is elemental prevention. Doesn't fit.
>
> I thought it might resonably be a warding or protection spell, or
> the equivalent of Resist Elements.  Could you reasonably argue it
> helps survival in the phlogiston?  I will drop this if people
> object.
>
>
>> > 4th-Level Paladin Spells
>> > Create Minor Helm - Makes a temporary minor helm.
>>
>> as a Minor Living Helm spell, or something that can only be used on a 
>> Quest.
>> Unrestricted access to travel is not a Paladin thing
>
> I thought that the Create Minor Helm spell could have a paladin
> bit added, to the effect that the helm gets a free overwatch from
> their deity/power, or a servant of, and the paladin is judged on
> how it is used.  The idea was that the paladin needs to travel,
> but it is definitely not unrestricted.
A paladin is already judged on everything they do and on every spell they 
cast, that it must fit with the paladin's code
Now (in 3.5e) that even the special mount has been reduced to a combat-based 
ability with limited applications to overland travel (only lasts for 2hrs a 
level), paladins are forced to resort to normal modes of travel that any 
fighter could use.  - Maybe we could give the paladinic version of this 
spell a duration of only 1 day, rather than the day or week per level of the 
higher level Clr, Drd, Brd, and Sor/Wiz versions to reflect this limitation 
of the class.

Since it's a travellling spell, why didn't you give it to Rangers?

>
>
>> > Create Portal - Opens a portal in the adjacent crystal shell.
>>
>> also, with quest restrictions (even as simple as chasing the villan)
>
> Do you think this needs to be added as an addendum to the spell
> spec, or left for the DM to work out?
since you've got Locate Portal already, this is just saving about 10 days or 
so of travel.  No current paladin spells are based on catching up with 
things, only on finding them, so I'd even go as far as to tsay they 
shouldn't get this.
A variant spell that opens the way between you and a moving target (villan) 
you are trying to apprehend, through any obstical (locked door, keyed 
portal, crytal sphere, etc.) would be much more appropriate.  We should 
check if such a spell exists in Complete Divine, the Spell Compendium, or 
the Book of Exalted Deeds and just list it in the "spacer's new uses for old 
groundling spells" section that it would also open portals in a sphere.

>
>
>> > Ranger Spells
>> >
>> > 1st-Level Ranger Spells
>> > Locate Portal - Senses direction and distance of closest portal
>> > in the adjacent crystal shell.
>> >
>> > 2nd-Level Ranger Spells
>> > Contact Home Power - Contacts your higher power from any crystal
>> > sphere.
>> > Detect Powers - Tells you who you might draw power from in this
>> > crystal sphere.
>> >
>> > 3rd-Level Ranger Spells
>> > Chill Fire - Makes the phologiston less flamable.
>> > Softwood - Places in suspended animation to protect from wildspace.
>>
>> Ranger spells being so much about survival and travel we can give them 
>> 3rd
>> for this
>
> I thought that given their druid association, it was reasonable.
>
>
>> > 4th-Level Ranger Spells
>> > Create Portal - Opens a portal in the adjacent crystal shell.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sorcerer And Wizard Spells
> [snip]
>
>
> Thanks again for the feedback!
>
> In particular, the catch on Softwood!
>
> -- 
> Dreamer
> dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
> http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/
>
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