Re: Create Air spell 3rdEd conversion

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Thu 04 May, David Shepheard wrote:
> >From: Dreamer <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> >
> >Starting to have a hack at the 3rdEd Cleric/Priest bits.
> >
> >I spent some time this evening talking through 3rdEd domains,
> >etc, and I _think_ that I now understand what is going on.
> >
> >This is the spec for the first cleric spell, Create Air.
> >
> >I think there is a typo and a 5th level priest only gets three,
> >not five, persons worth of air.
> 
> I think you are right too, Dreamer. The stats in the example don't match the 
> rule.

OK, I've fixed this.


> It is a real shame that this spell seems to be pitched at people floating in 
> the vaccum of wildspace. The spell has the following sentence: "Within a 
> larger envelope of air (such as the deck of a ship or the atmosphere of a 
> planet), the freshened air will drift off, combining with the existing air." 
> This could be two ways, either:
> 1) Read as "there is no benifit in casting this on a ship because it 
> combines with the other air" or
> 2) Read as "once created this air is no longer magical and combines normally 
> with the air on a ship as per the rules about two air envelopes meeting".
> 
> Jim Kersh (who did the version currently on Beyond the Moons) seems to read 
> the spell the first way, but I prefer to read it the second way.

Thanks, I agree with you.


> It would be nice if Create Air actually stated how much extra time you got 
> when it was cast on a ship. If we do switch from "tons of air" to "man/days 
> of air" (with ships stats stating that each ton of ship has enough gravity 
> to hold 30 man/days of air) then the "1 person per two levels" could be 
> changed to "1 man/day of shipboard air per two levels".
> 
> The description could then be changed to assume that it was normally cast on 
> a ship with a paragraph adding that if cast in the vaccum the excess will 
> drift off into space leaving the individual with enough air for x-rounds 
> (whatever you normally get as your personal air envelope).

I did a number of careful calculations, and I think it is
reasonable to assume that it provides multiples of two man-hours
of air.

I'm reluctant to change the basic wording, but I think we could
add some text to the effect that this adds a base two man-hours
of air when cast on a ship.


> >I think that Destroy Air wont actually make air poisonous, even
> >if it starts out as foul.
> 
> It doesn't say it does and I'm inclined to think it would be far to powerful 
> a spell. Perhaps there could be two versions of Destroy Air - one that makes 
> air foul and one that makes air deadly.
> 
> I'm inclined to think that "Destroy Air" is a bad name as the spell doesn't 
> *actually* destroy the air. As it makes the air foul perhaps we could call 
> it "Befoul Air". If befoul is too obscure a word then perhaps "Defile Air" 
> or "Corrupt Air" could be used.
> 
> Befoul Air has the word foul in it - so is probably the most descriptive, 
> but I like the name "Defile Air" as it hints that in the distant past this 
> spell might have come from Night Druid's Crimson Sphere!

These are all good ideas, but...

I don't think it is a good idea to change any spell names, even
if we think they are pretty stupid.  The only reason that I think
this whole conversion is feasible is on a 'minimum change' basis,
and starting changing spell names opens a whole barrel of worms!

Ditto adding extra spells - I wasn't too happy about adding the
necessary higher Wildspace Domain spells (though I _might_ have
enjoyed writting them! [grin] ), as I'm still not sure they wont
distort the style of Spelljamming.

Still, the idea of a _real_ Destroy Air spell, that just leaves
vacuum behind, is interesting!


> >I am unsure whether the small, stoppered flask should be a
> >consumed material, or be a focus - I can see arguments both ways.
> >
> >I note that the spec doesn't say what is _in_ the flask - I
> >assume it is good air. I also note that the spec does not say
> >that casting the spell involves opening the flask.
> >
> >On balance I would be inclined to say that it is a reusable
> >focus.
> >
> >Partly because I don't see clerics carrying around lots of little
> >flasks so as to be able to cast these spells.
> >
> >Comments?
> 
> I had a look at the 3rd level cleric spells to see how many 1st level spells 
> have material componants or focuses:
> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericSpells.htm#firstLevelClericSpells
> 
> There are only two spells that need material componants: Bless Water and 
> Curse Water. I also checked out Create Food and Drink (as that seems similar 
> to this spell) and found that that spell doesn't need a material componant.

Thanks!  This clears things up for me.


> I'd say you have two options here:
> 
> 1) Make the stoppered flask a focus for both spells or
> 2) Make the stoppered flask a focus *but* the air inside it a material 
> componant!
> 
> If you want to expand on option 1 the stopper can be pulled out of the 
> bottle for "Create Air" and pushed into the bottle for "Defile Air" (Destroy 
> Air).
> 
> If you want to use option 2 then the cleric could fill the flask with fresh 
> air as the material componant of Create Air and fill it with fouled air as 
> the material componant of Defile Air!
> 
> I like what Jim Kersh with the spell componant in his version of Create Air 
> - "The flask is not consumed in the casting, but its contents are, leaving 
> hard vacuum there. Opening the flask to refill it therefore requires a DC 15 
> Strength check."
> 
> The cleric would then need a number of these stoppered flasks, however the 
> flasks would probably be viewed as standard ship equpment and a good captain 
> may welll carry two dozen prepared flasks in the ships stores.
> 
> It's a shame that Jim didn't do the version of the reverse.
> 
> I'll have a read through the 2e version you just posted and Jim's version 
> and see if I can attempt hacked versions of the two 3e spells that Create 
> Air changes into.
[snip]

I'm afraid that I went ahead and did a version, then I got
carried away and also did the rest of the clerical spells!

(Some fought back, quite a bit.)

Hopefully you'll find the others further down your message queue;
I include Create Air and Destroy Air, with your suggested
changes, below.


I went for the Focus route, and carefully didn't add anything
about the contents of the bottle, or opening it.  Part of the
symbolism might be that the air in the bottle remains separate,
just as the air around an individual (or a ship) when you can
effectively cast a Create Air spell, is separate from any larger
body of air.  Conceivably this is more important than the
contents, which is likely just whatever air (almost certainly
fresh) was around when the bottle was stoppered.

One reason I did this is that I was looking at an individual
cleric character, rather than a well-organised ship.  A single
cleric would, I think, be unlikely to carry more than one
stoppered flask of air.  Focus fits clerical style better.


3rdEd:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Create Air
Transmutation [Air; see text]
Level: Clr 1, Drd 0, Pal 1, Wildspace 1
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: 1 + 1 person per two levels advanced
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)

By means of this spell a bubble of fresh, breathable air may be
generated around a person.  This air will drive out the stale air
around a person and restore it to a 'fresh' state.  In cases of
individuals adrift in space, this permits another rolling of the
die to determine duration of the fresh air.

Within a larger envelope of air (such as the deck of a ship or
the atmosphere of a planet), the freshened air will drift off,
combining with the existing air.  This can be considered to add
the equivalent of two man-hours of fresh air, for each person-
equivalent.

The spell can replace air that may be stale or befouled,
including air that is poisoned or tainted by a Cloudkill or
Stinking Cloud spell.

Creating additional air around a single individual does not
create a larger envelope; the excess air will simply drift off.

If the Create Air spell is used within a gravity field, inside
otherwise hostile circumstances (such as inside a Cloudkill or
Stinking Cloud), it will allow the recipient a single clean
breath before the created air bubbles to the surface.

This spell does not precisely counter Destroy Air, as it affects
more targets, and just transforms the air in a different way. 
Even though this is primarily an air transmutation spell, you can
alternatively use it as a conjuration/creation spell, as long as
you are not in the Flow, to create air.

Focus: A small, stoppered flask.


Destroy Air
Transmutation [Air; see text]
Level: Clr 1, Drd 0
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: 1 person
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

By means of this spell the air around one target is immediately
reduced to "fouled", with all effects of that change.  See
Chapter 1 for more on this topic.  This spell does not exactly
counter Create Air, just transforms air in a different way. 
Even though this is primarily an air transmutation spell, you can
alternatively use it as a conjuration/creation spell, as long as
you are not in the Flow, to create foul air.

Within a larger envelope of air (such as the deck of a ship or
the atmosphere of a planet), the fouled air will drift off,
combining with the existing air.  This can be considered to foul
the equivalent of two man-hours of air.

Focus: A small, stoppered flask.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/