Re: Clerics and Deities - Was: What a 3e domain is.

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Mon 01 May, Ariel Sibal wrote:
> --- "Rian A. McMurtry" <Whalejudge@???.com> wrote:
> 
> > I think you're complicating things unnecessarily. 
> > The original box deals 
> > with things well enough. 
> 
> > If a sphere requires people who cast "divine" spells worship a
> > deity, that's the requirement for the sphere.  A "divine"
> > spellcaster without a deity will have problems.  He can pick a
> > local god, or accept that he won't be casting spells.  If he
> > casts no spells, he can't spelljam; there's nothing to power the 
> > helm.  Since he doesn't have a deity at all, I'd say that
> > "contact home power" doesn't work for him at all and he's up the
> > fecal creek with out a paddle.  Spelljamming between spheres has
> > always been a bit hard on clerics, druids, and the like.

Sorry, I think you have this wrong.

Yes, this is a non-standard crystal sphere that blocks even
access to 0th, 1st and 2nd level spells to those who don't
worship a local god.

But, a divine spellcaster without spells still has their power,
otherwise being unable to regain spells in the phlogiston would
mean they were useless there to drive the helm, which I think it
clearly says is not the case.

In some respects being unable to regain your (higher level)
spells might make you more inclined to be willing to be a
helmsman.

Of course, I could be completely wrong here! [grin]


> My question about deities and clerics is about the
> cause and effect of trying to convert people in other
> crystal sphere. In my campaign you need to at least
> convert at least one person, a true believer, from
> that sphere to access low level spell in that specific
> sphere. You need the energy generated by prayers of
> 10,000 believers and casual converts (I think this is
> high, looking at it now) for the clerics to contact
> his Deity in that crystal sphere. It takes about
> 50,000 true believers and casual converts (again, I
> think this is high) for the cleric to receive higher
> level spells. There is a mechanism for the Deity in my
> campaign to gain access to the pantheon in that new
> sphere, but I don't think in the course the cleric
> adventuring time that could happen.

If I understand it correctly, both arcane and divine spellcasters
obtain their magical power from being magically talented.  The
difference is how they go about using this power, through spells.
 
Arcane spellcasters do not need an external source for their
spells, except in the wizard case of needing to memorise from a
spellbook.  Divine spellcasters get their up to 2nd level spells
from their own skill, and need to contact higher powers to gain
their 3rd and higher level spells.

This is the logic of making the SJ spells Contact Home Power, and
Detect Powers, 2nd; you can cast them in any crystal sphere where
divine spellcasting works, and the local powers are not actively
trying to suppress your use of divine spells.

So, as long as your realise that your system above is a varient
on standard SJ, no problem.  You could easily modify it so it
kicks in for above 2nd level spells, if that suited you.

Your clerics as described are useless in a new crystal sphere
without their power source, as they either just run the Helm, or
have to convert to a new religion.  Having access to at least
0th, 1st and 2nd level spells makes clerics far more portable,
which is probably fairer to their players.

As for having the power to contact your deity in a new crystal
sphere, could the cleric create a power storage item in another
sphere, and carry it to the new one?  Even if your PCs don't
think of it, it seems likely some religion or god has done so in
past.  Invader gods!

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/