Re: how cleric spellcasting works 3e, was: Create ~ Helm spells 3rdEd conversion - 1st hack

A: the 'Cleric' spell list contains those spells that all clerics get.  - qv 
the standard spheres accesed by generic 2e clerics
B: the Domain spells are only provided by specific dieties, and each cleric 
(priest) must choose only two of them to cast from - compare to 2e 
'specialty priests' having acces to different spheres than normal clerics.

it gets noted somewhere (probably the Dieties & Demigods, or even PHB) that 
the Domain spells come directly from your god, while the cleric spells come 
from the universal power of belief, but your diety can strip them from you 
if desired.
Consequences: we have to determine what mechanism the limit of 2nd level 
spell regain for clerics away from dieties is using (the reason appears to 
be arbitrary can cast contact home power, and less than minor access).  If 
loss of diety, then no domain spell allowed, if weak planar access, then 
limit as half caster level or second level max (3e has many more flexible 
limits than 2e, but 3.5 has intermidate amount)

researched spells: the 3e PHB does mention that clerics can reasearch new 
spells just like wizards do, it must still be appropriate as a divine spell, 
and generally not already on a different class' spell list (unless of higher 
level than the original).

the 2nd ed. ruling on which divine spells could be accessed by clerics, 
druids, rangers, paladins, and other speialty preists was based entierly 
upon which sphere the spell belonged to (so there was no need for the other 
spell lists to be written).  The content of the 3.0 spell lists was nearly 
identical, but with speciifc spell exceptions, changes in spell level and 
such rather than just Major or Minor access to the sphere.  In 3.5e, the 
greatest change was to the Ranger spell list, they went from animal/plant 
spells only to include many other hiding and speed-enhancing spells (they 
now get haste, longstrider <long-term, lower speed Expeditious retreat>, and 
find the path).

2nd ed spell lists:
Cleric: All, Astral, Charm, Combat, Creation, Divination, Guardian, Healing, 
Necromantic, Protection, Summoning, Sun, and minor Elemental
Druid: All, Animal, Elemental, Healing, Plant, Weather, and minor Divination
Paladin: Combat, Divnation, Healing, Protection
Ranger: Animal, Plant

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
To: <SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] Create ~ Helm spells 3rdEd conversion - 1st hack
> I don't know, as I still don't really fully understand the cleric
> domain bit for 3rdEd.
>
> Adding new clerical spells has always been a bit problematic in
> DnD. Clerics have shorter lists of allowed spells than wizards,
> and I'm not sure about how new spells can be added to the list.
>
> With arcane spells you do the research, which 'convinces the
> universe' (the DM) that your new spell works, after which nothing
> stops you memorising it from your spell book in the morning, and
> giving or selling copies of the spell spec to who you like.
>
> Or you find a dusty book of someone's research, and add
> interesting new spells to your list.
>
> A cleric typically has not only to convince the universe but also
> their god, as it is that god (or the god's servant) who is
> supplying the spell, or at least the energy to make it work. This
> is slightly complicated by the business of the cleric powering
> the 1st and 2nd level spells off their own magic, so you might
> have a bit more leeway there.
>
> What stops there being a spell list war between the gods, with
> them encouraging their worshippers to add new applications for
> priestly power, maybe crowding out other gods?
>
> Can you get appropriate-looking spells from priests of other gods
> and add them to spells your god lets you cast? If you enter a new
> sphere where priests of your god have previously had nothing to
> do with SJ, how do you persuade your god to supply/power these
> spells they've never dealt with here before?
>
>
> Under 2ndEd the spell list was large, effectively the sum of the
> cleric and druid spell list under AD&D 2ndEd. Being a cleric with
> a restricted list by domain was optional, and the default seemed
> to be all priests of all gods had the same spell lists.
>
> Druids were put forward as an example of priests of specific
> mythos, where they got powers to balance having a far shorter
> spell list, but the mechanics of doing that sort of design job,
> detailing the trade-off of powers for spells, were not in the
> basic AD&D rules, and I didn't see them elsewhere.
>
> Most DMs that I saw just used the cleric part of the list,
> without the druid spells, for all clerics of all religions. Some
> wrote (and are still writing) custom spell lists for particular
> religions. I don't know if the SJ rules were intended for priests
> of specific mythos (I don't think they were).
>
> If the DM wanted SJ cleric spells added to the lists, they just
> said it happened. I'm not sure what the gods did if SJ entered a
> crystal sphere, and hence new spells.
>
> So, I'm not at all sure about how you add spells to the 3rdEd
> cleric spell lists, and I would appreciate guidance.
>
> Help!
>
> (Please! [grin] )
>
>
>> Peter
>
> -- 
> Dreamer
> dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
> http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/
>
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