Re: Locate Portal spell - Dreamer's hacked version has errors

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Sat 01 Apr, David Shepheard wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 9:39 PM
> Subject: [SPELLJAMMER] Locate Portal spell - summary
> 
> 
> > OK, re-posting the (current) three spell specs, and a hacked
> > suggested spec. I've tried to change the spec as little as possible.
> >
> > However... I've added a paragraph about when the spell might not
> > work, which was sparked by thinking about what the 'Saving Throw'
> > or 'Spell Resistance' of a crystal shell would be.
> >
> > Either the spell works on one, or it doesn't, and I _think_ that
> > is down to the conditions within a crystal sphere. On the other
> > hand, the conditions in the Flow are assumed to be consistent
> > thoughout it, so if Locate Portal works in one place in the Flow,
> > it will work in all places in it.
> >
> > If you think this para is unneeded/unnecessary, just omit it.
> 
> Thanks for typing in all the versions - your format is fantastic! It should 
> be the "standard format" for any 3e spell conversion discussions. I've 
> suggested some changes (and added a new clean copy with all the suggestions 
> at the end).
[snip]

Mostly cut-and-paste, with a little layout-fixing.

I used it as a compromise based on the limits of text-only
e-mail. No use of paragraph indenting as that depends on the line
spacing of the e-mail reader to be clear. No use of italics for
spell names instead capitalising the first letter of each word of
the spell name. Obviously no use of bold. Certainly no colour!
[grin]

The final HTML or PDF version can obviously use the full set of
standard typographical bits.


> > Suggested hacked version (by Dreamer):
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > Locate Portal
> > Divination
> > Level: Sor/Wiz 2, Wildspace 1
> 
> *Call for feedback*
> 
> Does anyone think that any other classes should get access to this? Druids, 
> Bards, Rangers and Paladins were ignored in 2e and may have a case to use 
> some SJ spells. If you think they should get some SJ spells then speak up 
> now! My votes:
> * Bards - I say yes - bards are known for travelling: they would try to find 
> portals so they could take news and songs to new spheres.
> * Druids - I say yes -  druids have divination skills and power over 
> nature - the crystal sphere is part of nature and the spell is a divination.
> * Paladins - I say no - paladin spells are mostly protection from evil.
> * Rangers - I say no - ranger spells seem more specifically plant/animal 
> than nature based.

It depends on what you think of 'Wildspace Rangers'; you could
argue that this spell fits with the idea of tracking in space,
etc. You need to think about what the character class does, in
particular in a SJ setting, in addition to their existing spell
lists.


> > Components:  V, S, F
> > Casting Time: 1 turn
> 
> *Error in casting time format - turns no longer exist*

My mistake. I should have said '1 minute'.


> <Conversion Manual summary - note this applies to casting time and not 
> duration>
> Turns in Casting Time are converted into minutes - 1 turn = 10 minutes.
> </Conversion Manual summary>
> 
> Should read: "Casting Time: 10 minutes"

I realise that to convert the spell, time to time, 1 DnD turn
becomes 10 3rdEd minutes, but if you want the spell to take the
same number of combat actions, which I think is arguably the
intention, then the Casting Time should be 1 minute.

This is a problem which will come up again and again - if we
convert on just the basis of the length of time that DnD turns
last we will get spells that no one will contemplate casting in a
combat sitation.

I'd prefer the time frame for spells to match the original, but
if people think the spell should become something more like a ten
minute ritual?


> > Range: 300'
> 
> *Error in range conversion - ranges for most spells should match standard 
> SRD ranges*
> 
> <Conversion Manual summary>
> A range between 31-100 yards becomes "Medium"
> A range above 101 yards becomes "Long"
> </Conversion Manual summary>
> 
> <SRD summary>
> Medium range is 100 feet + 10 feet/caster level
> Long range is 400 feet + 40 feet/caster level
> 
> See The Hypertext d20 SRD for more information on spell ranges:
> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range
> </SRD summary>
> 
> Technically, Richard Gant converted the range correctly (although for some 
> reason put personal - and then put the real range in the spell description). 
> However, a "correct" version cuts down the spell range, making people fly 
> closer to the crystal sphere than in 2e.
> 
> Technically correct (but not recommended): "Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 
> ft./level)"
> 
> Mark Doolan made the range one range category too large. However, 
> considering that the 2e range was maxed out for a medium range spell, I 
> would go with Mark Doolan's very slight exageration (he has only *cheated* 
> by adding one yard to the 2e conversion process).
> 
> Recommended (as per MD): "Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft. /level)"

I didn't check the SRD, I used the notes in my 3.0 PHB. Sorry.

It suggested that a Range of 300' would fall under "Range
Expressed in Feet", and I used 300' to make the minimum change to
the 2ndEd spec. If you want to increase the Range, you can,
though the minimum of 512' seems quite a jump.

You don't want the characters to figure out that they are now
running under 3rdEd rather than 2e, due to their spell ranges
changing, do you? [grin]


> > Target: Crystal sphere
> > Duration: 1 round
> > Saving Throw: None
> > Spell Resistance: No
> >
> > The caster of a Locate Portal spell can find the nearest portal
> > through a crystal shell either into or out of the Flow.  The
> > spell indicates direction and distance (either in miles if it is
> > close, or in days of travel time at Spelljamming speed).
> 
> *NIt-pick - doesn't match the style of SRD spells*

I followed the principle of minimum change to the text. Do we
_want_ to re-write all the spell specs to get the style right?

Doesn't that produce too much chance of changing the meaning?


> Have a look at Locate Creature and Locate Object
> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/locateCreature.htm
> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/locateObject.htm
> 
> The description should talk about "you" rather than "the caster". From 
> looking at other spells, I've realised we don't need to mention distance 
> units in the spell description. I've tried to make this into Plain English.
> 
> Recommended: "You sense the direction, distance and travel time to the 
> nearest portal through the crystal sphere. The spell works both inside and 
> outside a sphere. If your ship is travelling at spelljammer speed (or if you 
> are familiar with how fast it moves at tactical speed) you also know how 
> long it will take to travel to the portal."

This looks workable, but I've not playtested it, or run it past
the local rules lawyers. I hoped that by sticking as close to the
original text as possible we could avoid having to playtest all
the re-done spells.

Hmm. Maybe we need to add 3rdEd commentaries on spells, after
making the minimum changes to the 2ndEd text to make the spell
compatible with 3rdEd?

I don't know.

I'd certainly prefer to leave the 2ndEd text as alone as possible.


> > In general, from any point on a crystal shell, the portals for a
> > normal-sized ship are from 2-20 days away from any location.  At
> > the DM's option, there may be more portals than normal available,
> > less, or none at all.
> 
> This is a bit repetative - "from any point" - "from any location". I also 
> suggest altering the subject of this paragraph to match the target of the 
> spell - a crystal sphere. Location (the place that the spell is cast from) 
> is already implied so I think we can drop that. As a ship normally travels 
> at spelljammer speed, I've inferred that the travel time is for ships at 
> that speed.
> 
> *I also suggest changing "DM" to "GM" (games master) to avoid legal issues 
> in any glossary attached to the Spelljammer conversion. (WotC assert that 
> "Dungeon Master" is a trademark - use of a trademark may be legal cause for 
> them to revoke permission to use Open Game Content. Many people dispute 
> this, but as GM is a more universal role playing term, we might as well 
> change it.)*
> 
> Recommended: "A typical crystal sphere has many portals. The closest one is 
> ususally between 2 and 20 days away at spelljammer speed (as determined by 
> the GM). A GM may decide a specific sphere has more or less portals than 
> normal, or even decide that the sphere has no portals (a sealed sphere). If 
> a sphere has no portals you know that it is a sealed sphere."
> 
> (I've put "as determined by the GM" in brackets to remind players that the 
> GM rather than the player rolls the travel time.)

Again, I've left the original text as alone as possible, just
changing 'moderator' to 'DM'.

I left 'crystal shell' as a term as 'crystal sphere' refers to
the whole contents of the sphere, and seeing as it is the shell
that has the portals, not portals appearing anywhere else in the
sphere, this seemed best.

If you want to change DM to GM, go ahead, but I personably only
use that in games rules from a non-TSR/WotC source - if it risks
legal problems I guess this makes sense.

As for who rolls the travel time, that is a matter for the GM and
players to decide amongst them. Quite a few refs that I know let
the players do some of the mechanics of the game (in this case
the player of the navigator), including running NPCs, or even a
player who has no characters present running some attacking
monsters! One even lets players roll both their own and their
attacking monster's dice for large combats, though he makes the
decisions about monster tactics and movement. I don't think
adding assumptions on the gaming culture the spell will be used
in is a good idea to add to a spell spec.

I don't think it is a good idea adding concepts to a spell spec,
like 'sealed sphere'.

In fact there are a number of reasons why you might not detect
any portals, including: the Locate Portal spell is not working in
this crystal sphere either on a temporary or permanent basis;
someone is blocking your attempt to detect them; there are
currently no portals, as they only open at certain times; you are
unlucky and randomly opening and closing (and moving for cruel
DMs) of portals means there aren't any at the moment.


> > While this will not normally be the case the DM may choose to
> > define that this spell does not work within certain crystal
> > spheres; it will always work in the Flow.
> 
> *Unneccesary addition*
> 
> This is adaptation rather than conversion. This sort of information should 
> be in the background material of any spelljammer setting (crystal sphere) 
> that does not allow this spell to work normally.

OK omit.


> > The spell may only be cast within 300' of the surface of a
> > crystal shell.
> 
> *Unneeded repetition*
> 
> Range is already stated at the top. Keep the spell as short as possible.

Yes, I know. But it was in the original spec, and is a detail
that could be overlooked. It also makes it quite clear what the
Range is to, which I didn't think was otherwise clear, as people
with twisted minds might think it a Range to the ship, or the
Helm, or something capable of Spelljamming speed, or...

If you think this should be omitted, do so, but I don't recommend
it.


> > Focus: A conch shell.
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Here are a couple of things that could be useful to Adam when he compiles 
> these:
> 
> Legal Stuff - For ESD conversion agreement compliance
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Stuff for top of page:
> d20TM System Conversion of Locate Portal (from Concordance of Arcane Space)
> Based on work by Richard Gant and Mark Doolan
> 
> Stuff to go into section 15 of the OGL attached to the page:
> Concordance of Arcane Space (C) [insert copyright date from CoAS] Wizards of 
> the Coast Inc,
> d20TM Conversion of  Locate Portal from Concordance of Arcane Space (C) 
> Dreamer 2006
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Are you happy for your credit to say Dreamer?

OK, but you should be credited as well, as your input affected
the spec.


> Spell List additions - this spell needs to be added to the following 2 spell 
> lists:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Sorcerer/Wizard Spells
> 2nd Level Sorcerer/Wizard Spells
> Div
> Locate Portal - Senses direction and distance of closest crystal sphere 
> portal.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Cleric Domains
> Wildspace Domain
> (Granted Powers - to be decided)
> Wildspace Domain Spells
> 1. Locate Portal - Senses direction and distance of closest crystal sphere 
> portal.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

"Senses direction and distance of closest portal in the adjacent
crystal shell" might be a better bet, as it covers where the
portal is, in the shell, and where you need to be to detect one.

If the meaning of 'adjacent' isn't clear, people can go read the
full spell spec, and once they've done that this should act as a
reasonable short-form and memory jogger.

So:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cleric Spells

2nd-Level Cleric Spells
Locate Portal - Senses direction and distance of closest portal
in the adjacent crystal shell.
-----------------------------------------------------------------


> Modified suggested hacked version (by Dreamer, altered by David Shepheard):
> (I'm not after credit - but we need to track all version changes to avoid 
> confusion to Adam during compilation)

I agree with this.


> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Locate Portal
> Divination
> Level: Sor/Wiz 2, Wildspace 1
> Components:  V, S, F
> Casting Time: 10 minutes
> Range: Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft. /level)
> Target: Crystal sphere
> Duration: 1 round
> Saving Throw: None
> Spell Resistance: No
> 
> You sense the direction, distance and travel time to the nearest portal 
> through the crystal sphere. The spell works both inside and outside a 
> sphere. If your ship is travelling at spelljammer speed (or if you are 
> familiar with how fast it moves at tactical speed) you also know how long it 
> will take to travel to the portal.
> 
> A typical crystal sphere has many portals. The closest one is usually 
> between 2 and 20 days away at spelljammer speed (as determined by the GM). A 
> GM may decide a specific sphere has more or less portals than normal, or 
> even decide that the sphere has no portals (a sealed sphere). If a sphere 
> has no portals you know that it is a sealed sphere.
> 
> Focus: A conch shell.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, I think this needs more work before it is agreed
on...

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/