Re: Mammoth -> Horseshoe Crab

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Sat 17 Dec, jamesriley wrote:
> V/R FC2 Riley, James R. 
> cel: 228-249-2967
> e-mail: jamesriley@???.net
> Check out
> > Augmentation I,II,III; Extension I,II,III; and Expansion I,II,III for
> ideas.
> 
> The joys of metamagic!
> 
> I assume some of those are from the "Tome of Magic", which I've
> not read.
>       Actually yes and no, they are from the tome and. 2e PHB. I also keep
> forgetting that my players researched these spells under 1st ed. by the
> names I've been using before 2e came out, but the correct names are:
> Augmentation I,II,III ToM; Extension I,II,III 2e PHB; and Far Reaching ToM.
> In the Skills & Powers version, they did away with those spells and I think
> in the 3.0e they created a single high level spell that does the work of all
> three metamagic spells from ToM, but I don't have 3.0 books so I don't
> remember what it is called.

Thanks for the information.


> Do you need to add extra "control" enchantments?
>       I am sorry, I completely forgot about the consoles. The consoles are
> a separate magic item designed to allow non magic usurers to control magic
> items and allow remote operation of deck mounted devices. They cost about
> 15,000 gp to make and take about 1 month to construct. They resemble the old
> roll top desks with a cutout in the front for a display screen, and jewels
> inset into the surface that act as control knobs. These consoles are crafted
> for specific tasks, (e.g. comm., fire control, sensors, plus any other uses
> you might think of.)and once built can only perform that type of task
> thereafter. If a display screen breaks, a replacement screen can be inserted
> into the socket of the console and after minor "tuning" by a low level mage
> can thereafter be used again in the same capacity. The screens themselves
> can (if you wish) include phantasmal force magic to replace visual imagery
> with symbolic representations, but the consoles magic makes the scrying
> magic visible to nonmage operators.

Those are certainly interesting.


>       As far as what spells make up a crystal screen, it varies based on
> what you're looking for. The quantity of spells you need will depend on how
> far you want to detect whatever you are detecting for. (e.g. three
> expansions of detect magic will multiply the area of effect of that spell by
> 8.) I can't remember all of the various spells, or exactly how many, that go
> into making a military grade sensor, but it is one spell per varience
> detected (invisibility, magic, undead, etc...)then one casting for each
> augmentation on the ball (remember each casting of an metamagic spell
> doubles the previous effect,2x,4x,8x,16x,32x,64x,128x,etc...). don't forget
> the enchant item spell and the permanency (with a suitable sacrifice). The
> quantity of spells in a military sensor, if I remember right, is around
> 35-40 spells plus some rare elements and mineral traces with some truly
> complex rites by multiple mages. If you are planning to make stuff like this
> for your game, then you would be the best judge of what will be required of
> your wizards to make these items for game consistency and so as not to screw
> up your campaigns laws of physics and magic.

That all seems to make sense. This screen seems to be complex
enough to make a Staff of Wizardy/Power look simple by
comparison!

I suppose one approach would be to have a Crystal Ball or Mirror
of Mental Prowess be the base enchantment (though these are much
longer range than your screens), then bolt on extra enchantments
to extend what they sense, similar to how a Crystal Ball can have
Clairaudience or ESP, maybe with an illusion spell of sight and
sound to act as a display for non-mages.


> Your economy must be pretty impressive to support this sort of
> thing. 
>       My players run a unified government that handles the budget for an
> entire multiplanetary solar system with a free market economy and a mild
> taxation policy. Almost 100% of the system trade is export, but there is no
> overhead loss in a vast merchant fleet because independent merchies come to
> us from outsystem. That's why it has been so long since I dusted off the old
> blueprints for the HC supertanker design. FeOsphere never really invested in
> too many merchant style hulls until now, and even those are going to be
> internal to FeOshpere shipping, not for the export business.

Presumably you have considered the risk of cartels of traders
forming to monopolise trade to your system, and rack-up the
prices, as they take advantage of you being dependent on them.


> So, every time you fire a missile a one-shot Helm is used-up, and
> the equivalent of half-a-dozen one-shot magic items. Conventional
> D&D would probably make each missile worth tens of thousands of
> gold each, then.
>       Most missiles cost about 35-55,000 gp depending on warhead, seeker
> enhancements, whether it point detonates only or has a proximity fuse or a
> timer(the most expensive).

Wow!


> What sort of comm is the 'standard'? Do you go in for protection
> from interference/jamming? Distress beacons? Video comms? 
>       Standard comm. is a basic crystal scrying device divided up among a
> group or fleet by casting stoneshape many times to "shave" thin screens away
> from the core device just before finalizing the crafting of the item and
> fixing the magic on the group as a whole unit. It usually includes video and
> sound and a pretty good range augmentation. Touch screen control is usually
> built in for a little extra cost so speakers can select individuals from the
> "net" to talk to. The only types of jamming have been from beholders
> antimagic and the vodoni who have stolen this technology and broadcast
> audible glamour over their comms to drown out all our comms. We still
> haven't quite figured out how to fix that yet, but are working on a
> solution. Yes we use distress beacons. Based them on a single shot version
> of reverse of nondetection spell just like the IFF beacons.

Interesting... So the basis of the comm is a similarity
enchantment, which is clasically very difficult to 'tap', but is
difficult to add new units to. Generally these don't care about
distance and are directionless, which gives you problems with
nailing the Vodoni. Presumably the mechanism which allows you to
distinguish between units might be helpful here - use a Detect
Non-Spacial Link* spell to target a Crystal Ball to check out the
area around the Vodoni, then feed a really big Fireball down the
similarity link - you don't want them learning how to do this
back to you!


> So 'lookout' consists of someone on the sensor screen, and
> someone using the Mark I Eyeball. 
>       Yes, that sums it up nicely.
> 
> Presumably the low-level mage just does the installation and
> initial testing of the system, probably pulling the whole module
> to do repairs, and sending it off to the specialists to see what
> can be salvaged. 
>       You guessed it right off the bat. It makes more sense to have low
> level mages get their experience out in the fleet (adventuring) until they
> learn enough to get the really high paying jobs at the factory/labs,
> shipyards, or as consultants. The fact that they are provided with "tech
> manuals" (spell books) for the systems doesn't hurt either.

Do the low level mages have the problem of limited spell learning
slots, so that when they want to move to a different profession
there is no room in their heads to learn a new set of spells?

Or, can they just work from the spells in their "tech manuals",
just as using a spell scroll removes the need to have actually
learned that spell? (Note: I say learned here, not memorised.)


> I would assume that your repair crew would be sort of magical
> technicians, rather than full-blown enchanters. What sort of
> skills and spells would you expect them to use?
>       Most tech/wizards are provided with spell books "tech manuals" to
> assist them in their work, they are free to copy spells and recipes from
> these into their own private spell books as a partial compensation, along
> with their low pay, for their shipboard work. It saves them enormous money
> and time on spell research, and teaches them higher magic in the progress.
>       Standard spacefaring skills for the work aboard ship are a
> requirement, as well as a really good understanding of the identify spell
> and analyze spell. An almost mandatory skill to have would be spellcraft
> both for arcane and divine magic since both magics are used to make items
> and trade goods here. Read Magic is a must have spell. Engineering(magical)
> as a subclass of Engineering is a must have NWP. Lore is a truly useful
> spell to have but not a prerequisite since it is provided in the tech
> manuals for the ships systems.

Thanks for this. I aim to use this skill set, after I look up a
few of the spells.


> Speaking historically unprepared captains don't seem to be that
> uncommon! [grin]
>       [amused wry chagrin]
> 
> I assume that in your campaign merit rather than buying a
> commission is how you get officers!
>       Yes, the ones that survive have merit and get promoted. Stupid
> officers don't often survive because they do stupid stuff. If the bad guys
> don't kill 'em, the crew will. It still costs a lot of money to get into the
> officers academy, but heroism and medals go a long way towards offsetting
> that expense. In my sphere, there are no real nobles just lifetime titles
> and honors awarded for great deeds. Enlisted personnel have as good a chance
> to get into the academy as a wealthy politicians son, but instead of money,
> they pay in service or valor.

So, you need to be heroic AND successful (and, probably lucky).


> Interesting. Do you rely on the Magic Missile auto-hit, or is
> there some way to confuse the targetting on this? From what you
> say above I assume augmented missiles for better range.
>       If a mage is at the gun console, then it is auto-hit for him. If a
> non mage is at the gun console then the magic-missile hits are based on his
> thaco with whatever dex bonuses and magical bonuses apply. And yes range
> augmentation is an expensive must have function. 
> 
> I will admit a fondness for the pre-AD&D, Original DnD, Magic
> Missile spells, which were conjured +1 arrows - they didn't
> auto-hit (most DMs allowed the mage to count as a fighter for
> targetting them, and apply their DEX missile bonus).
>       I liked them too, but as the rules changed and the game got more
> complex I had to upgrade or become obsolete as a GM. That's why I'm a little
> annoyed that the 3e system is so vastly overhauled. I'm too old to be
> completely starting from scratch and learning a whole new game system and
> all new spells and skills. I already have all the old stuff from S&P back to
> the original D&D memorized, and just can't learn any more.

Magic missile being a conjured arrow is a house rule of my
campaign. AD&D MM is something I've seen used as a precision
death spell. I've not been too happy about how 3e has messed with
the magic, in particular Sleep was further degraded between 3.0
and 3.5, so it is arguable if it is worth using.

So far I am treating 3e as a different game to (A)D&D - in the
category of if you follow the game logic you will probably get a
game fun to play, but not treating it as compatible with (A)D&D.
As for memorising new stuff, getting older doesn't mean you can't
do it, it just takes longer - scientific research backs this up!
[grin]

And, memorising new stuff apparently helps you keep your mental
faculties for longer! [grin]

New ideas can offer possibilities to enhance your existing games,
as well, even if you don't choose to play 3e - one DM that I know
tried the 3e initiative system in a 2e game.


> > the long range missiles (where its detection range is actually reduced so
> > it will fire the warhead closer to the enemy vessel).
> 
> So the long range missiles don't work on ships crewed by undead
> or mindless things. 
>       Only if they are set to go off on proximity fuses. I still have
> point det, and expensive mechanical timers.

OK. That makes sense. Whoever is firing the missiles had better
really clearly understand what the detonation scheme is on each
of them, then! And, issues of physically swapping out detonators
for new ones, or selecting the detonation scheme on firing, could
be quite important.


> Would an amulet of protection from ESP work, do you think? I'm
> not sure about "minds so alien you can't tell anything about
> them", which some people seem to claim for mind flayers.
>       The minds so alien bit is a little cheesy, but I've used it to
> describe the Alien creature and the Thri-kreen, especially when the PCs try
> to read their minds. The reason most people do that with flayers is probably
> due to the Lovecraft influence. I never used that excuse for them, but I was
> willing to use it for their gods when the PCs bumped into Nyarlathotep on a
> voyage once.

I've got some ideas for Mind Flayers that I'm putting into my
"Dyson Space" write-up, when we get to play test some more of it,
and inspire me to do more of the write-up.

Not at all Lovecraftian!


> I assume that the PCs have something to do with the Council.
>       The PCs(now)are the council. I play the Senate and the Commons, as
> well as the political opposition. We'll be retiring those characters very
> soon, and either making new ones or just retire from the whole game. After
> all, we're all in our late thirties and forties now and have been playing
> for about 20 years.

Do you plan to go on doing some sort of SJ game?


> This is one reason that explosives have never worked in my
> campaign (that and I didn't want guns in DnD), though I suppose a
> one-shot ground-zero Fireball item would be an (expensive)
> alternative.
>       Yes, I can understand your point, and even though muskets and cannon
> are allowed in my game, I respect that it is not something for everyone. I
> must point out however that there are multitudes of alternative bombs in
> D&D. e.g. oil of fiery burning poured into beaker of plentiful potions set
> on chlorine =boom; staff of magi, break it =boom; two noncompatable magic
> potions, mix them=boom; two bags of holding, one inside the other=boom.
> You get my point. Even the spell delayed blast fireball is a 3 second
> grenade. It's just a matter of preference of form and setting. I prefer
> something like the Napoleonic Wars for the SJ setting but all my players are
> military and things advanced to a more "modern" type of SJ setting through
> good roleplaying. I don't mind though.

Very expensive magic items, and the potion mixing rules don't
produce consistent explosions, I believe. One DM I know had fire
elementals sometimes turn up to find out what was going on if
there was an explosion, which I thought interesting!

Everyone with explosive-propelled missile weapons, or even having
cannon around, does not make for the sort of fantasy game that I
wish to run. I want explosions to be things the PCs are trying to
avoid (say, investigating an achemical lab), not cause!


>  And worst of all...Politicians!
> Messy!
> As for politicians ... no lawyers? [grin]
>       Politicians all start out as lawyers and just get more corrupt from
> there.[smirks]

Politicians and lawyers are in theory both good ideas. You don't
want to spend the effort ruling things and organising the rules
that make society work, so you delegate. You want someone to help
resolve conflict between individuals, and individuals and
society, so again you delegate. Now, the problem is keeping them
honest...

Maybe you need a "Detect Honest Lawyer And Politician" spell!
[grin]

(Note: that's "Detect Honest", not "Detect Dishonest", just so
they don't get to argue! [grin]  Make 'em work until the spell
detects them! [grin] )


> > Jim Riley "Sailorguns" FC2 USN.

* Grimoirium Cantabrigensis (try Google for this)

-- 
Dreamer
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http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/