Re: Mammoth -> Horseshoe Crab/pump helm logic.

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Mon 12 Dec, jamesriley wrote:
> With regards the pump helm, first I must make apologies. My players
> blatantly stole the idea from the goblins. After the third or fourth
> invasion attempt by the scro and all their big nasty friends my players said
> "hey we don't even have to leave home for these guys to come try to take us
> over! Why are we going to all the expense of buying Arcane helms that we
> don't use?" so, with much research and development and money, my players
> finally reverse engineered one and figured out how it works. I'm guilty, I
> went along with it. it made sense. 

The problem with all of this is on two levels: what the DM wants
to have work in their campaign, and the logic by which things are
explained by characters within the game.

Spelljamming is about ships in space, which typically requires
expensive enchantment powered by rare or valuable resources. This
produces problems for DMs who want goblinoid races with minimal
magical skill or access to resources to be 'out there' - it can
really stretch credibility.

A Helm which needs no external source of power, e.g. spell
energy, is likely at least a 7th level spell effect - and one
needing to be permanently enchanted as well. It is a removable
object (which should increase difficulty and cost) which can fly
an entire ship through atmosphere, landing and taking-off from
planets, then at amazing speed through (wild)space.

So, you really want to reduce the spell level, so you make the
Helm burn a valuable external resource as 'fuel' - all the magic
in a spellcaster for a day, or a magic item, or someone's
lifeforce, or someone's psionic or magical powers.

If you want to use a mundane external resource as 'fuel' then
this should reasonably make for a higher level of spell effect -
symbolically you are putting less into running the helm - a
smaller sacrifice. This makes a Pump Helm more expensive than a
standard magical capability using Helm.

I could more reasonably see goblinoids using Lifejammers, or
conventional Helms with shamen or witchdoctors.


>       The first and hardest fact to realize is that all matter contains
> magic, or more correctly is magic. Three states of matter are solid, liquid,
> and gas. But fourth and fifth states exist, plasma and magic (energy).

Classically the four alchemical elements are Earth, Water, Air
and Fire (yes, the oriental scheme has five, and a different
scheme has three).

All materials (and creatures) contain different proportions of
each of these elements. Humans for example are considered to be a
balance of the four elements.

Now, how magic ties into this is tricky. An arcane magic user is
supposed to be tapping energies from all around them, including
other planes, and using these to change the world in accordance
with their (magically trained) will.

There are a number of ways that this manipulation can be messed
up, and there are worlds where the energies do not flow freely
enough for a magic-user to function.

I am not familiar with any scheme that allows E=mc2 conversion of
matter into magical energy.


> A
> wizard converts the magic she/he has stored into matter every time he casts
> minor creation (or any other spell for that matter). All we are doing here
> is converting matter from one form to another. Magic to solid. Solid to
> liquid. Liquid to plasma. Etc. Furnaces convert magic stored in items
> (potential energy) to motive force(kinetic energy).

I have doubts about this. Furnaces convert things of magical
value into useful motion. You might say they convert the work
done by an arcane magic user in making that item into movement of
the ship that the Furnace is in. It doesn't seem to matter (no
pun intended) what sort of magical energy is in the item
consumed, just the magical effort that went into making it. In
some ways the enchanter is 'pushing' or 'willing' the ship along
by proxy.


> Pumps convert matter
> itself into magic(potential), then into motive force(kinetic).

The idea that matter was made of energy, and that this counld be
converted both ways, arrived with Einstein at the start of the
20th Century AD. It broke the then understood rules of
conservation of mass, and conservation of energy, causing a
terrible fuss.

As far as I know this was not a standard part of the alchemical
or magical system of belief, and is not (as I understand it) part
of the way DnD magic is considered to operate.

I am quite prepared to be proved wrong, here! [grin]


> The next step
> is to understand that anytime matter is converted to energy(magic) its
> atomic makeup can be rearranged into anything else. This is the third
> principle of alchemy. It all boils down to the premise that pumps and
> furnaces act like atomic reactors. Burning a material to release its
> potential energy in a kinetic form. If this sounds too far around the bend
> then ask yourself how does a spell battery hold spell levels and how does a
> major helm convert a wizards spells into motive force? They are both just
> matter conversion devices. Heck the goblin pump even looks like an atomic
> reactor core. Seems to work the same way too. Burn the fuel until all the
> free magic is released then convert the remainder into magic for motive
> force. The books imply that the goblin pump is a less efficient form of
> furnace, but I think the reverse is true that it is in fact more efficient
> in that it can convert matter as well as spell energy.

The Pump Helm seems to be a more effective Helm than any other
one. This makes me highly suspicious - and as a DM I don't think
that I can really use it in my campaign without clever players
working from its principles and kicking current magical theory
and practice to bits. I don't want nuclear powered wizards!

I could imagine a pump as you describe being a non-magical
conventional engine, not capable of Overdrive, or landing or
take-off on more than size A objects, but not a Helm equivalent.

Sorry, I can't see any easy ways around this...


> V/R FC2 Riley, James R. 
> cel: 228-249-2967
> e-mail: jamesriley@???.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spelljammer Setting Discussion
> [mailto:SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com] On Behalf Of Dreamer
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 4:56 AM
> To: SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com
> Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] Mammoth -> Horseshoe Crab


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