Re: Alternative helm creation (furnaces and other helms)

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Wed 07 Dec, David Shepheard wrote:
> >From: Dreamer <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> >Reply-To: Discussion list for the Spelljammer campaign setting              
> ><SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com>
> >To: SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com
> >Subject: [SPELLJAMMER] Alternative helm creation
> >Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:15:01 +0000
> 
> >Furnaces are the obvious other helm. I note the basic rules don't
> >obviously give a tonnage limit (in the text, anyway), but I would
> >assume this is no better than the 100tn of a Major Helm. It would
> >seem reasonable for these to be built as easily as a Minor Helm.
> 
> I think that it is 100 tons to make these. Paul Westermeyer has these helms 
> down as not working in the flow:
> 
> http://spelljammer.org/rules/fastplay2e.html#Helms

"The Concordance of Arcane Space", pg 38, Furnaces:

"They are limited solely to travel within a crystal sphere, as
exposure to the phlogiston causes an immediate explosion..."


> So I'm not sure where you would create them. Perhaps they need to be built 
> in wildspace, instead.
> 
> >None of the other Helms look too interesting to want to create in
> >any numbers.
> 
> A crown of the stars would be nice, but as it is priceless you wouldn't be 
> able to make one. Necromancers might want to make Lifejammers and things 
> like that. Even if your characters don't want to make them, you will need to 
> think about other races making them. You can't open this can of worms and 
> decide what worms stay inside.

My comment was about PCs creating Helms, and the DM will have NPC
races create whatever Helms is convenient to and consistent with
their campaign.

I was, however, trying to work out some rules for regular use of
Lifejammers...

But, I'll put these in another post!


If you can make artifacts, you might be able ot make a Crown of
the Starts or an Artifunace - I can conceive of campaigns where
this might be relevant. Sketching how they might be made could be
useful for DMs - for Epic campaigns?

I can also conceive of campaigns where there are a number of
varieties of beings who are Living Helms, by means of an ultra
powerful spell, meta psionic power, or they've just been built
that way.

What _was_ the going rate for Star Dragon eggs??? [grin]


> >Though, a Lifeboat Helm which does SR1, can only land on but not
> >take-off from planets, and is otherwise as a Minor Helm, might be
> >worth considering. If this was made it would likely have a list
> >price of 50,000gp, maybe only 10,000gp if it needed a complete
> >re-build after use and particularly after a landing (and so was
> >effectively single-use). As easy to build as a Minor Helm, but
> >cheaper.
> 
> This one (or the next one sounds a bit like a tactical helm). Actually if 
> you want a single use helm then a magic scroll (with create minor helm on 
> it) and a chair will be easier and cheaper to make.

You still need someone who can read the scroll (safely) and
someone to power the helm. I previously, some while ago, went
through possibilities for these.

A Lifeboat Helm should get you somewhere in at most a few weeks.
Isn't a tactical Helm incapable of Overdrive?


> An alternative to this one shot thing is to have a furnace helm that eats 
> itself instead of another item. Maybe it could pop out of existence at the 
> end of a certain amount of time. Or perhaps the helm could slowly melt (as 
> if made from ice).

I like this! You would need quite a reasonable helm lifespan,
though, to ensure your lifeboat can get to 'shore'.


> >A Wildspace Helm is a similar idea, only SR1, but cannot safely
> >land or take-off from celestial bodies larger than class A -
> >useful for orbit-to-orbit runs, otherwise as a Minor Helm. I
> >don't see why you couldn't use this in the phlogiston. List price
> >25,000gp? As easy to build as a Minor Helm, but cheaper.
> 
> If you can use this in the phologiston *as well as* in wildspace then it 
> shouldn't have this name. Wildspace Helm suggests a helm that only works 
> inside a sphere.

What do you call a Helm that can only work in wildspace (and
maybe in the phlogiston) but not land? I couldn't think of a
better idea...

Deepspace Helm?


> >One reason that I am trying to work this out is that I want PC
> >enchanters to be able to build a Helm, if stuck on a groundling
> >world, as long as they have access to good enchantment
> >facilities, and the right spells.
> 
> If most spacefarers don't know how to build a helm, it isn't logical for 
> groundlings to be able to make one. At the very least you should need to 
> have access to wildspace in order to make one. Making a spelljammer on a 
> groundling world is like building a space shuttle in the middle of a rain 
> forest. While thoretically you could do it, it should be so difficult to 
> cope without the usual tools and resorces that it would take you a lifetime.

No, the idea is that spacefaring PCs are stuck on a groundling
world, for one reason or other (say, Rod of Cancellation applied
to their Helm). If they are skilled enchanters, and have access
to, or build for themselves, suitable enchanting facilities, then
I want them to have a reasonable chance of doing it.

This is supposed to be a major campaign thread, with travel
around finding rare materials for ingredients, obscure and lost
books of magical research that will make things easier, etc.


> I think it would be better to have a spelljamming vessel visit your world 
> and give the PCs a chance to steal it. Perhaps the spelljammer could be a 
> slave ship coming to kidnap groundlings and your players could help attack 
> it.

That is the classic SJ campaign start, which is OK. These are
not, as I explain above, groundling PCs.


> >If you are an enchanter, and can make the magic items to power a
> >Furnace (a scroll with a single Magic Missile spell on it looks
> >attractive as 'standard' fuel), building a Furnace might look
> >like a good idea. And, maybe easier than a Minor Helm.
> 
> You can not power furnaces with scrolls. You must sacrifice magical *items* 
> (of at least 150 xp in value) to gain SR. Furnaces get rid of magic items 
> like dysons get rid of dirt!

You seem to be talking about a 3e campaign?

Lots of people are still using AD&D for SJ.

A Furnace is interested in the xp value that magic-items are
worth on the AD&D Treasure Tables, i.e. a measure of the work and
magical effort has gone into making the item.

Scrolls are listed in the DMG as worth 100xp per spell level, so
on that basis the scroll with a single Magic Missile spell on it
is good for about 17hrs (16.8) at the 1000xp per week at SR 2.

I assume you are talking about a variety of vacuum cleaner, and
not a Dyson Sphere? [grin]


> Hope this has been useful.
> 
> David Shepheard
> easyInternet internet cafe
> London UK

-- 
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/