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From:     Thatotherguy <spellj@??????????.com>
Date:     Wed, 3 Aug 2005 18:21:48 -0700
Subject:  Re: Fixing the Astronumdi Cluster Article (feedback)
> Illithid Empire - Here's something to consider, which
> I thought of during your description of illithids.
> Perhaps the empire IS 3 billion strong, but not all of
> that is in the Cluster.  Rather, the nation is
> scattered in countless colonies spread across
> hundreds, if not thousands, of systems.

First, the ancient illithid empire is gone.  Dead.  If it was still
around, people would have noticed.  Second, 3 billion illithids even in
just melee could everwhelm the cluster in no time flat.  Add their
powers and they rule (plus their slaves and Varan, etc.).  It doesn't
matter how scattered they are, illithid plane hopping makes 3 billion a
totally whacked number.  Third, why would anyone, anywhere, ever want
to make the cluster the center of their empire?  Conquer Toril or Oerth
or something.  Far richer ground and easier to conquer and rule.
Fourth, that number is the population in the sphere.  There's no other
way to interpret it and absolutely no reason to give it even the
slightest consideration since the other population figures also have to
be thrown out wholesale (or are we to believe that's the population of
elves across all the spheres they have contact with, since they are
part of the IEN, even though their local situation is very unusual).

  They use
> their abilities to hold the empire together, with the
> capital and larges concentration in the Cluster.  The
> empire perhaps has the power to crush the Antillans,
> but are too spread out to do so.  If they tried to
> muster their full power, they'd attract the attention
> of the gith and their other enemies, who'd take
> advantage to destroy their outposts and distant
> universities.  The losses would be too great for them
> to risk it, even to rid themselves of the Antillans.

And this brings up another point.  If they had such an empire the gith
would have attacked it wholesale by now.  3 billion illithids hunted,
torured, questioned, and disposed of cannot keep that big a secret from
their psionic enemies.

> Illithid Plot - this could easily be shifted from 'put
> out the sun' to 'turn the sun to a red star', which
> would leave the sun to produce light & heat and make
> the whole sphere accessible to the illithids.  A bonus
> would be to have the sun shed its outer layers in a
> minor nova; not powerful enough to destroy the more
> distant colonies, but more than enough to fry the
> Antillans.  The illithids could then move into the
> ruins of the Antillan culture and wait out the Outer
> Powers, who would freeze to death under the light of
> the now-colder sun.

Cool idea.  The other issues, such as timeline, still apply, however.
Honeslty, this sounds like something that should be implemented in the
Monstrous Arcana illithiad modules as well.  Perhaps you should write a
"fix" for those.  Lol

> Illithid God - in reading this part, I'm kinda struck
> by something: you're right, the illithid "god" does
> sound like a god at all!  Maybe instead of a god, this
> is a "vessel", and by pouring psionic energies into,
> they can literally shake the foundations of the
> universe.  Powered up by the combined psionic energy
> of the illithids, the magic of wizshades, and the
> power of a sun, the vessel could then be used to
> accomplish some nasty feats.  Maybe something as
> simple as giving the illithids more psionic powers, or
> perhaps (to steal from Starcraft) make illithid nobles
> immortal; if slain, they regenerate unharmed.  Or
> maybe spawn horrid Chuthulu-like creatures that could
> devour crystal citadels whole.  Or heck, maybe they just
> want to uncover some long lost knowledge.  The
> possiblities are limited by the DM's imagination.

An interesting possibility.  Though I think having the illithids have
an actual religion makes them much more realistic.  As well, they are
the only race in the sphere that gets much of a religious focus (how
odd is that?!) and, other than the neogi, the only ones the author went
to any lengths to detail religiously (however badly).  I think leaving
it as a holy object and the illithids of the sphere as a theocracy
makes them distinctive from illithids you'll find most everywhere else.

> Arcane Plot - the presentation of the original plot
> was silly, agreed, and you do present sound reasons
> for abandoning it.  However, it might be salvagable
> using Planescape overtones.  Perhaps instead of the
> whole Tanar'ri race, the Arcane brokered a deal with a
> single Abyssal Lord.  We know that Abyssal Lords like
> to steal whole spheres, ala the plot from For Duty and
> Deity, so it would not be entirely unconcievable that
> the Arcane couldn't broker a deal with Orcus,
> Demogorgon, or Graz'zt.  Instead of opening a gate,
> the Arcane use the power of the sun to suck the entire
> sphere into the Abyss as a brand-new layer for some
> lord.  If this happens, it gives the PCs an "out" to
> still defeat the plan, to destroy the device and send
> the sphere back into the Prime and ending the
> nightmare.

First, why are we still on demons?  Why would an absolutely lawful race
ever deal with a creature of pure chaos?  Why would they ever trust
one?  Honestly, if you're so desperate to implement this stupidity why
are you not using devils?  Or daemons?  As far as planescape goes,
don't get me started on how broken that whole line is.  "Overblown
plot" was exactly half the definition.  My whole point in the "fix" was
to get away from that stuff.

Glad to see it's up and people are interested in it.



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Previous Message: Re: Astromundi Cluster: a different viewpoint.
Next Message: 3e assistance
Month Index: August, 2005

SubjectFromDate (UTC)
Fixing the Astronumdi Cluster Article (feedback)    Night_Druid    03 Aug 2005 22:14:40
Re: Fixing the Astronumdi Cluster Article (feedback)    Thatotherguy    04 Aug 2005 01:21:48

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