Re: Planar Structure and Cosmology - Planejammer?

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Tue 12 Apr, DarkTouch wrote:
> I draw this viewpoint rather heavily from the information provided in
> the 3.0 Manual of the Planes in combination with the Planar structures
> presented in the 3.0 Deities and Demigods.
>
> By those two books, the only method of traversing cosmologies is
> through the plane of shadow. You walk deep enough into shadow and you
> can come out through a different cosmologies' plane of shadow.
>
> Basically this was done to make the plane of shadow the replacement
> for the Phlogiston in 3.0.. obviously being the spelljammer buff I am,
> I don't want that but I'd be hesitant to remove that role from the
> plane of shadow. Instead I figured that the Phlogiston and plane of
> shadow can serve the same purpose.. it just happens that the
> phlogiston is much more consistent, safer, and economically viable.

Sorry, my mistake, I thought the Plane of Shadow was a major
plane, opposed to the Plane of Radience, in the pre-3e cosmology,
but I was wrong, and I think it was something like a demi-plane.

It looks as though under 3e it has become far more important, and
may well fit into the cosmology in a cleaner way.

I like your approach to the Plane of Shadow. Presumably there are
spells that allow it to be used as a (dangerous) means of travel.

Now, mixing this together with some of the things that I have
suggested...

>From what I can see, if you assume that the Phlogiston, True
Limbo, the Wood Between Worlds, and the Plane of Shadow are
different faces of the same thing, then that may well be quite
useful. The difference between these seems to be: how much they
represent all the worlds that they connect together within them,
the Phlogiston as crystal spheres, the Wood Between Worlds as
pools, and the Plane of Shadow as shadows; and how they affect
those who enter them, the Phlogiston preserving, the Wood Between
Worlds causing to fall asleep, and the Plane of Shadow absorbing
and transforming. True Limbo is not too well described under the
DnD cosmology, but I've often come across references to it as
'grey mists' - maybe the Plane of Shadow is supposed to parallel
or replace it?

Maybe you could have 'shadow barges', parallel to spelljammers,
that travel through the Plane of Shadow, rather than the
Phlogiston?

What would be really interesting would be a mechanism which
allowed you to travel through both, or maybe even all the
'transitive planes', such as the Ethereal, Astral, Shadow and
Phlogiston.

Would this go some way towards satisfying the needs of the
Planejammer project?


> On 4/12/05, Dreamer <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk> wrote:
> > In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Tue 12 Apr, DarkTouch wrote:
> > > My personal Speculation on the Phlogiston:
> > >
> > > I actually see the Phlogiston as being the most objective portion of
> > > reality out there. It is a giant tapestry that holds everything
> > > together. Though the Phlogiston seems to just be a sea of floating
> > > flammable gas, it is the raw stuff that everything else is made of.
> > >
> > > Dimensionally the Phlogiston is flat. A solid monolith of reality.
> > > There are of course rumors of the rare portion of space outside the
> > > phlogiston but the only other plane that truely runs parallel to it is
> > > the Plane of shadow which is stretched much too thin as it reaches
> > > across the distances to be able to interact with the phlogiston or
> > > beings in it.
> > >
> > > The Crystal Spheres have long since pulled the raw material they need
> > > in order to create everything they need inside themselves. Like
> > > bubbles in seafoam this is a naturally occuring process specific to
> > > the materia of the phlogiston.. just like how in our reality spaces
> > > gasses collase and eventually erupt into new stars, so too does the
> > > phlogiston collasce until its outsides seal into a new crystal shell.
> > >
> > > Within each shell as it forms is first simply "reality".. the material
> > > plane of that world. Solid and relatively unchanging. As it stabalizes
> > > though, Dieties either move in, are called by the sentients
> > > developing.. or the reality is simply 'nothingness' until a creator
> > > diety gets its hands on it. Through whatever means however new planes
> > > are then fasioned off of the material.. they have a
> > > spiritual/conceptiual nature that goes beyond the prime but is based
> > > off of it... just like each person has a soul. (Yes, this is very
> > > existentialist theory)
> > >
> > > Generally, the plane of shadow isn't created within the world but it
> > > finds its way in there anyway.. sometimes appearing to be just a minor
> > > demi-plane but often growing to take over and more strongly influence
> > > things. The rawest of Crystal Spheres involves a single shell holding
> > > a material plane plus the mirrored shadow plane.
> >
> > Certainly interesting!
> >
> > Why do you single out the Plane of Shadow for special treatment
> > like this?
> >
> > Is the phlogiston connected with the Plane of Radience in some
> > way, which, I think, is usually taken to be the opposite of the
> > Plane of Shadow?
> >
> > Because it is everywhere, does the Plane of Shadow affect
> > spelljamming in some way, or can it be used in interesting ways,
> > as none of the other planes are accessable in the phlogiston?
> >
> > I am still using the original DnD planar structure, as it was
> > before they introduced things like a Plane of Shadow (or a Plane
> > of Radience). Hence, Shadow Magic (etc) is not making use of that
> > plane, and it is more to do with a warping of physical reality.
> > See rear of PHB 1st Ed AD&D.
> >
> > I tend to find four elements, plus the negative material to keep
> > undead happy, and the positive material to balance that, good
> > enough for just about any reasonable purpose.
> >
> >
> > > So because of this, I don't see the Phlogiston as having any
> > > relationship with the other planes of a sphere beyond the material
> > > just as the desk I'm sitting at has no interaction with my soul.
> >
> > Unless your desk has a soul, or spiritual component, as some
> > systems hold all objects to have! [grin]
> >
> >
> > > On 4/12/05, Dreamer <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would be interested to hear other people's speculations on the
> > > > phlogiston!
> > > >
> > > > Hope this lot might be some use to someone! [grin]

--
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/