Re: Pirates - Was: Places: Dragon Rock Map

In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Mon 07 Mar, David Shepheard wrote:
> From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] Pirates - Was: Places: Dragon Rock Map
> > In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Sun 06 Mar, David Shepheard wrote:
> > > From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
> > > > In <URL:news:local.spelljam> on Wed 02 Mar, David Shepheard wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If I recall the references properly, real world pirate ships
> > > > often had far more people on board than was required to crew the
> > > > ship, generally at least twice, maybe even three times or more.
> > > >
> > > > If you used this in SJ, boarding actions would be their ideal
> > > > tactic, and they could just murder and recrew a couple of
> > > > merchant ships, before needing to return to port. Ignoring any
> > > > possible recruits from among the merchant crews.
> > > >
> > > > If this is the case, then pirate ships might be far more likely
> > > > that most to have a way of renewing their air, because they are
> > > > so over-crewed. I quite liked the Horn of Fog, though having a
> > > > permanent magic item like that would mean rich pirates. Alchemy
> > > > which could renew air, might be far more likely. I'm assuming
> > > > food and water are compact enough that their not a major issue on
> > > > short pirate raids.
> > >
> > > Look up the disease scurvey to see one of the problems associated
> > > with longer sea voyages. The British found that the disease could
> > > be prevented by taking along a supply of limes (that is why we
> > > got the nickname "Limeys").
> >
> > If you look, you will notice that "Dreamer" has a "co.uk"
> > address. [grin]
> >
> > Better (if I can use that term about them) pirates should know
> > how to deal with these problems.
>
> Don't forget that it took a lot of time for people to understand
> scurvey and find a cure. There would be some people in SJ culture
> that could deal with things like this and some that couldn't.

Yes, but if your crew keep dying, or getting ill, you may want to
know why. Some pirates are ex-merchantmen, some may be 'honest
merchants' in some ports; some are likely well educated.

Asking a priest of a god of healing and health seems pretty
obvious, and there are some pretty good non-magical healing
skills around, in many places. Even an alchemist interested in
living things might be able to tell you why a sailor died of
scurvey.

This is a case where the SJ culture may be far more effective,
than our own was, in finding a solution.


> > > One thing not covered much in Spelljammer stuff, probably because
> > > it is stuff that is irrelevant to gameplay, is food and cooking.
> > > Real ships used to carry livestock and also had cooking fires
> > > (these were in ovens rather than open fires). Neither is the sort
> > > of thing that gets mentioned in fiction. Livestock could cause
> > > problems on a spelljammer by carrying disease especially as
> > > sailors and animals used to share the same deck. Cooking fires
> > > could spread to the ship if knocked over (and in SJ use up your
> > > air). Nobody seems to mention that in The Flow, you can only eat
> > > dry rations and uncooked food. Travel between the spheres
> > > probably takes a *lot* out of people that do it.
> >
> > I would agree with all of this, and this is another reason that
> > alchemy, which could provide flame-less heat, or magic, which
> > could provide hot food, one way or another, could be very popular
> > in the phlogiston. I don't think fishing, to get a change of
> > diet, will be very practical, either!
>
> I think that crew members could drag lines to try to fish for
> scavvers in their spare time.

Some might well do that, but, I don't recall reference to there
being scavvers in The Flow.


> > I didn't think you got too much human-animal disease problems,
> > with a little care, except with pigs?
>
> The problem with the care thing on a real ship is that water used
> to wash in through the gun ports and spread over the deck. This
> would mean that any animal excrement would get moved around. I'm
> sure everybody did their best to keep things clean, but accidents
> would happen every now and then. A SJ ship wouldn't have that
> sort of problem, although if animals were taken on a spelljammer,
> you *would* have to factor in air intakes for them. Maybe you
> could softwood a few sheep and drag them behind the ships air
> envelope! ;-)
[snip]

"I say! This mutton stew seems a little woody!" [grin]

How about a magic item: Softwood Crate, any living thing placed
in this, and the crate closed, is affected as if by a Softwood
spell in bad air, and only recovers again if the crate is opened
in good air?


> > > Before you do research away from the Spelljammer setting itself,
> > > don't forget that pirates already have access to the following:
> <snip>
>
> > Thanks for the above list!
>
> > I knew of some of these, but, they might suggest a few new magic
> > items, like the Air Lantern, which while it burns provides fresh
> > air, good for two man-equivalents, in a 10' radius (there is a
> > non-magical alchemical equivalent).
>
> An Air Lantern that *burns* sounds counter intuitive. If you are
> going this way, perhaps it should be like an incence burner and
> give of sweet smelling white smoke.

Yes, but you can buy Air Candles in the Real World.

"Oxygen Candle: a mixture of sodium chlorate and iron, typically
enclosed in a metal housing, which smolders at 600degC,
producing iron oxide, sodium chloride, and approximately 6.5
man-hours of oxygen gas per kilogram of candle."

copied from appendix B, "glossary", of "Lost in Transmission" by
Wil McCarthy (c) 2004.

I like the idea of a magical Air Lantern, that as long as you
have the oil to keep it burning, supplies you with air.


> If you want to go for an alchemical solution then I suggest you
> look up space suit life support systems to see what sort of
> things NASA and the Russians used to clean up their air. It might
> give you a bit of inspiration.

There are the above candles used by people like cavers. There are
also zeolite and other systems used to 'scrub' carbon dioxide;
this may make air 'foul', while there is still plenty of oxygen.

If you want to replace an entire lost atmosphere, a big pile of
ammonium nitrate, plus some carbon to soak up the excess hydrogen
and oxygen, as alcohol, would be a good alchemical starting
point.

For example, 27.5lbs of ammonium nitrate will give you 91 cubic
ft of air, with the correct mix of oxygen and nitrogen, at
standard pressure. A few barrels or chests of this (with the
carbon mixed in), and an alchemical device to 'burn' it in, call
it an 'Air Brazier', would be very useful to have on a ship!

Produces alcohol as a by product!

Mind you, it's a bit of a fire hazzard...


> The really low tech solution is to use plants! You could perhaps
> cover the underside of a ship with plants, but that might attract
> some sort of wildspace plant eaters.

I looked into this, but you need a lot of plants! Blue-green
algae might be one idea, as long as you kept them fed and the air
flowing (pumped?) through them.


> Something you might want to try to do is create a container that
> keeps in an infinity vine but allows stale air to get in and
> clean air to get out. Of course if it was broken the vine would
> coat the ship.

A specialised magic to kill infinity vine should be possible.
Also, don't you need to make sure the vine gets sunlight?


> > Maybe some sort of larger unintelligent lizard creature which can
> > create a bigger fog cloud exists?
>
> Swamp Wiggles and Salt Wiggles both have the same ability as the
> Hurwaeti. Do you fancy catching some Salt Wiggles and giving it a
> try? LOL

_I_ don't, but you can be sure some have tried it!

And, maybe tried to create a creature with the ability -
cross-breed a wyvern, so it has a fog cloud 'breath weapon'? A
Fog Dragon?


> > I can see the great popularity of Hurwaeti (C.S. Lewis 'Narnia'
> > marsh wiggles?), to the extent that some pirates or other evil
> > spelljammers might keep them as slaves.
>
> Some pirates would keep Hurwaeti as slaves, but I'm sure pirates
> could find Hurwaeti that were willing to serve on a pirate ship
> if you paid them well.

Both, I strongly suspect.


> > Also, it seems to strongly push for any crew, pirate or
> > otherwise, having two spellcasters, one who normally runs the
> > helm, and a second with some spell capability free.
>
> Any ship that doesn't have a back up helmsman is asking for
> trouble. If you divide a ship into three 8 hour watches you need
> at least 3 magic users just to run the helm.
>
> As all the people that run the helm loose their spells for the
> day, you need to have a 4th spellcaster if you want a crew to be
> able to cast any spells at the end of the day.

If you think of the shift system, you should have the spells of
the third mage, after which maybe the others need to pull
twelve-hour shifts.


> > Scrolls with the above spells would seem very attractive, as I
> > would have thought you could use these without interfering with
> > your ability to spelljam, though maybe not after you start
> > spelljamming for the day?
>
> That is a great question. I can't rember reading a rule about it.

I'd probably rule that.


> > Would it be only naval vessels who have three helmsmen, and at
> > least one, preferably two, understudies, to have three eight-hour
> > shifts at the helm, with spare spellcasters?
>
> I think all ships would carry as many helmsmen as they could
> afford to. You could even get really low level wizards or clerics
> to come and be trained as apprentices by your main spellcasters.
>
> Don't forget that on top of all the spellcasters we have both
> mentioned, pirates also need enough helmsmen to man the helm of a
> ship they hijack. I'd say that 6 helmsmen (including apprentices)
> would be a minimum number for pirates to have.

Sounds reasonable. Pointing out to a merchant helmsman that they
can be easily replaced if they don't cooperate might help. And,
while they do cooperate, your helmsmen have their spells!


> > > > Arr, my hearties! [grin]
> > >
> > > Avast ye land-lubbers!
> >
> > So, you'd make fun of ... The Captain, would you!  [grin]
>
> Shiver me timbers!
>
> > (Must stop channeling pirate Captain 'Billy Red'...)
>
> Is that psychic channeling?

I certainly hope not! [grin]

Anyhow, he's wet navy, in his anti-magical ship, "The Black Pig",
so far, and having magic resistance in its timbers, it probably
wouldn't spelljam too well, even if he obtained a helm!

The Black Pig ... She's a popular ship, isn't she? Arrr!


> David "Big Mac" Shepheard
> Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
> http://virtualeclipse.aboho.com/


--
Dreamer
dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk
http://www.romsys.demon.co.uk/