Re: What is a "conventional engine"?

>From: "SUBSCRIBE REALMS-L tauster" <chefseehund@???.de>

>Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] What is a "conventional engine"?


>>On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:39:46 -0500, Novamaster <novamaster@??????.ca> wrote:

>>"Nonmagical Engines
>>
>>Cost: varies, but approx. 10,00 gp
>>
>>    There are a number of ways of moving through space-gnomish engines,
>>chemical propellants, even explosive mixtures ignited in a closed space.
>>These are sometimes used in space to ravel through magic-dead areas
>>(called "Sargasso") as well as for lifeboats and shuttles that are too
>>insignificant to merit a full-blown helm. Non-magical movement is used
>>as a back-up system for larger ships when all other options fail.
>>    All nonmagical engines share one feature-they are slaw compared to
>>helms. Their movement is never more than 17mph and their SR is 1. At
>>such rates, it would take years to read even a nearby planet.
>>    Further, they cannot be used to lift off from celestial bodies
>>larger than class A due to their limited power. Little research has been
>>done in expanding this "weak sister"to the spelljammer helms (because
>>the helms provide such a good alternative_, but there are situations
>>where they are useful."

>i´ve read the parapraph, but i still don´t see what kind of conventional
>engine drives an elven flitter. certainly it´s no living creature drawing
>the ship. if anything, only a very small minority of flitters use "flying
>cart-horses". it doesn´t seem to go along with the description of the
>flitters application (diplomatic vessel, etc...).

>as well, i don´t see the elves equipping their beautiful ships with bulky,
>dangerous and noisy gnomish engines: imagine an elven flitter landing
>gracefully - with a long and foul-smelling vapor trail! :o)

>...seems we are forced to make up something fitting for elven flitters, and
>for good measure, we could try to come up with a couple of alternative
>conventional engines (abbreviated "ce" in the following).

>btw, the description of them says you couldn´t take off planets larger than
>size a with ce´s. so what do the elves land in on larger planets (like
>toril; they are in routine contact with evermeet & evereska)? toril is a
>size e planet, after all...

The size a ruling does seem to clash with this use of elven flitters. Either the elves
actually land larger ships on bigger worlds or they have a type of conventional engine
that isn't mentioned here.

>i try to come up with a number of ce´s, feel free to correct me when (not
>if *g*) i go over the top.

>- specially designed fly-spells: cast on the ship not larger than an elven
>flitter (though more powerful versions might drive larger ships, perhaps
>for a shorter duration), with a duration of one day (???).

If you were going to use spells you might as well cast the create helm spell onto a chair.
If the ship was captured the helm would disapear at the end of the duration and would
therefore not fall into enemy hands.

I think the fly spell works better if you make it permanant. Don't forget that the elves
will want to do this again and again so permanancy makes this more sense. Don't put the
spells on the ship itself. Put them onto an item that is attached to the ship. That way
you can remove it and put a spelljamming helm back on the flitter afterwards. You could
even make the flying device similar in shape and size of a spelljamming helm to make it
fit into the space where the helm has come from.

The arcane focus for a fly spell is a feather, so you could perhaps make some sort of
feather related device that is stuck in front of an ordinary chair. Knowing the elves this
would probably be a very beautiful object. How about a sculpture of part of a tree. A
branch could weave infront of the pilot and could be the perch for a mithral statue of an
eagle. The eagle could be woven together from mitral links giving it a flexibility similar
to elven chainmail. It could be fully articulated and the pilot could control the movement
and stearing of the flitter by turing the birds neck bending its wings and making small
tweaks of the control feathers at the edges of its wings and its tail feathers. Whatever
position you put the bird into makes the ship move as if it was a giant eagle with its
body in the same configuration. (A bit of research on bird movement might be necessary to
avoid any mistakes with this.)

By the way, don't forget that the speed of an elven flitter engine is already established
at "2 spaces (hexes) per round" so you don't need to come up with any rules for speed.

>- some kind of "lesser artifurnace": it´s just powerful enough to move a
>very small ship (like, say... an elven flitter or a  wreckboat). instead of
>magic items, a lesser artifurnace uses spells cast on it and coonverts them
>into motive force. it can take off larger planets, but awfully slow and
>with the worst maneuverability. (somebody care to do the number crunching?)

If you are going to make a lesser artifurnace then why not also make a lesser version of a
minor helm? I'm sure that the arcane could come up with a ship with lower SR than a minor
helm and no spelljamming speed. You can compare the minor and major helms and work
backwards to see what this would work like. They would be very useful on groundling worlds
(where spelljamming speed is not possible) but not a lot of use in space.

>>Jason Hosler wrote:
>>
>>>Besides the chemical engines that have been mentioned
>>>before, I remember one suppliment that mention a lich
>>>travelling between planets in a carriage pulled by
>>>undead pegasii.  There has also been mentioned things
>>>like building a large brass sphere and filling it with
>>>dew, training Rocs and other giant avians to keep
>>>flying up, and the ever popular magic down a comet and
>>>ride it out.

>i´ve read this sometime, but didn´t remember...the dew-filled brass sphere
>sounds good to me, it has the same wonky feeling than the overall
>spelljammer-physics. perhaps a druid has to bless (or collect) the dew, and
>the brass needs to be forged by a dwarven priest of moradin, or with very
>special (and, therefore, rare & expensive) metals.

Don't forget that all magic based settings have wonky science, becuase they involve things
that are impossible if compared to real science. The idea of a magic carpet is just as
nuts as a spelljamming helm becuase most people would fall off of a carpet. In order for
anything like this to work you must suspend your disbelief.

I like the dew idea. Can you put in the full quote or tell us where it is from, please
Jason? I think it could work for elves, rangers or clerics of a god of dawn as well as for
druids. The dew in this case seems to be working like a spell componant so I think it fits
in with other D&D stuff well. I wonder if the brass sphere is large because the dew is
somehow converted to movement and a small sphere would use up the dew before you had time
to get where you are going.

If this was used on an elven flitter, I can imagine them carrying barrels of dew water in
order to refuel their flitters. They might even need to trade with groundling elves in
order to obtain their supplies of dew. However, you could also have a small quantity of
dew appear on the wings of all elven ships that are grown. Elven ships may wait behind
planets or moons for several hours until the ships air envelope was cooled and then fly
out into sunlight to make the dew to form on the wings. Crew members would then need to
collect the dew.

>i don´t like the idea of other creatures "pulling" ships. that should be
>saved for emergencies or _really_ unique encounters, not for standard
>procedure. but that´s just me...

I certainly don't think it should be used for ships like elven flitters. And I agree that
it shouldn't be common in wildspace. However, you could make a certain groundling world
have a unique flavor by giving them a lot of space vehicles with this sort of method.

Imagine a world where spelljamming helms are not available, but all mages and clerics know
about the activities of wildspace. There could be a lot of people flying into nearby space
on pegasi and travelling to the planet's moon on the backs of dragons.

You could either make this a world where helms don't work for some reason or you could
make the dominant society one that tries to attack spelljammers and steal their helms.

Space chariots full of warriors would fit in with this sort of place very well.

David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
http://virtualeclipse.aboho.com/