Re: Why is it 'Grey' and 'Realm' space?

From: "Dreamer" <dreamer@??????.?????.??.uk>
Subject: [SPELLJAMMER] Why is it 'Grey' and 'Realm' space?


> I wondered whether trying to answer the question as to why they
> are are called 'Greyspace' and 'Realmspace' might help make use
> of the 'big three' spheres, without touching the groundling
> worlds.
>
> The basic idea is: put settings into each sphere which match
> these names.

I think it is best to keep the reasons behind the names of spheres the same, for
continuity reasons.

We should really build on top of what we already have, rather than try to pull things down
and rebuild them.

After reading what Canageek said to you about Volo. I wonder if the spelljamming community
of Realmspace could be responsible for people calling Toril, The Forgotten Realms.

Perhaps thousands of years ago, Toril had a *big* spelljamming culture. This culture could
have turned inward and ignored the realms above. Those realms of the sky in turn could
have forgotten about the groundlings below and concentrated on dealing with each other.

This could probably be tied in with the elves. They abandoned certain regions around
Cormyr a long time ago (I'm not sure how long at the moment as I've not got my books with
me). If the old elven empire was the heart of Toril's spelljamming community, then the
loss of that community could kill off spelljamming trade to the planet.

The names Forgotten Realms and Realmspace could possibly be elven terms made up either by
elves living in the sphere or members of the IEN who perhaps left the sphere to its own
devices following the First Unhuman War.

The idea certainly would need more work to it than that, as I've pulled a lot of these
things off of the top of my head. However, I think it could be made to fit in with both
Forgotten Realms continuity and what the SJCS needs from Realmspace.

We could then pick one of the other places in the sphere and promote it to the position of
the "most active spelljamming culture in the sphere".

The original name would then still apply to the sphere even though that world was not a
major spelljamming destination.

Perhaps some of the other planets in Realmspace could also have nicknames similar to
"Forgotten Realms".

Maybe Kapri could be called the Aquatic Realms by the elves. Some of the planets in
Realmspace could even have Realm names that no longer make any sense (just like the
Forgotten Realms that are not no longer forgotten).

Perhaps Glyth and its moons were once known as the Ringed Realms in honour of Glyth's ring
system. It may once been the home of a spelljamming elven society that was wiped out
during the First Unhuman War. The illithids may not even know the elves used to live on
their moons. The under-underdark (deep underdark sounds better) might even contain a few
mythryls and elven artefacts that the Free Thinkers Union could find.

The underdark of Glyth could even contain forgotten communities of elves that abandoned
the surface to avoid disaster. Instead of making these the standard evil drow, I think it
would be more fun to make them the good variety that worship Eilistraee. These drow, would
then have a desire to come back to their surface, but not yet have the ability to do it.
They could be waiting for their cousins to return from the moons and rescue them and not
realise that the illithids moved in and killed their cousins off.

> Grey: named after the wizard of the same name, and due to the
> colour of the sky when on the world. The Wizard Grey got so upset
> with all the troubles of living on Oerth that he constructed a
> Brass Head, to give him answers as to where else he could live.
> This lead him to the world of Grey, and he set up his home there,
> tended by his many automatons. Unfortunately, he found that he
> got lonely, so he first arranged for an innkeep, and a trader, to
> set up at the other side of Grey, near a well he created, and a
> magic wood that provided as much air renewal as desired. Later a
> trading town grew up, quite normal, except the local guards are
> his incorruptable automatons, and when he gets a bit lonely,
> there is always somewhere for him to go.

I like this character, but not the idea of renaming Greyspace after a wizard called Grey.
Maybe you can modify it and use it somewhere else. For example the wizard could have a
different name and could come from the city of Greyhawk. If he moved off of his home
planet he could name another location after his home city. Maybe there could be an
asteroid in The Grinder called New Greyhawk or something similar.

The Brass Head is fun. I'd be interested to see what these devices can do. Does it connect
to the mind of a god or outer plane creature?

The problem with putting a wizard on an empty rock and then adding a trader and an inn is
that the inn would not have enough trade to keep it going.

Perhaps it would be best for the wizard to find a small spelljamming community with an
area of land that they will let him use. Maybe this could be some sort of symbiotic
relationship.

If there was a small asteroid with some sort of monster like a rogue beholder living on
it, the wizard could kill the monster in exchange for the services of the locals. The
service that the wizard wants in this case is to be allowed to do his magical research in
peace. The locals would be grateful for the wizards protection and would give him the
space he needs (no pun intended). After all, as long as he stays there they know that he
will keep other monsters from moving in and doing the same thing.

> Realm: is so called because it is the home of a long-fallen liche
> king. His spirit still protects the place, though it is said that
> he long ago lost his physical body. Those knowledgable suggest
> that by mighty enchantments he made the whole world into his
> Magic Jar, and his spirit still reaches out, and listens in on
> those living there, looking through their eyes, but not
> possessing them or controlling their actions. It is said, that,
> often least once a year, someone who is in a drunken stupor,
> stands up, with a strange gleam in their eyes, and shouts "This
> is my Realm!", and then falls over again.

Again I like this general idea, but not the suggestion of renaming Realmspace.

I think you have the beginning of a good idea for a liveworld here. If you forget about
calling it Realm and make the locals forget about the lich, then you could possibly
upgrade his powers and let him actually take over the bodies of people from time to time.

You could then have a mysterious serial killer on the world. Nobody would be able to catch
this killer because, whenever a suspect was arrested they would be found to be innocent if
questioned with detect lie spells (it wasn't them that did the murder it was the lich).
There would also be other murders while they were in prison.

If the lich is clever he could even carry out murders when the moon is full (if you have a
moon), so that people start to suspect that there is a werewolf doing this.

The motive of the lich could be to spook people out so much that they leave. Alternatively
he could be trying to assemble body parts to create a new physical body. Perhaps he has
found a spell that requires one bone to be taken from each corpse in order to succeed.
Anybody know how many bones there are in a human body?

Alternatively the lich could have turned insane over the millennia and may be so insanely
jealous of the living that he can't stop himself killing people.

> What do you think?

I think you've thrown the baby out with the bathwater here. However, I also think that
your ideas would be great if used elsewhere and would be keen to see you do more with
them.

> Might we claim that places like these are iconic enough that the
> whole sphere is named after them, rather than the main world?

In my opinion the problem is not the *names* of Krynnspace, Realmspace and Greyspace. It
is the lack of a place that would have as much trade as Bral.

If we can pick things like Dragon Rock, that are already named, but not well documented by
TSR, then we can create three Brallike places that seem to maintain continuity with the 2e
version of Spelljammer. I'll have to look through those SJML archives of Dragon Rock as it
sounds like a good choice.

Ideally I'd like to see all three spheres work (from a SJ point of view) without the
groundling nations. But I'd also like to see the groundling worlds kept there so that
people that want to do crossover games can also use these spheres as a way to do that.

> This seems a way things might run a bit smoother. But, you do
> need something for Krynnspace, if the actual world has
> disappeared (I didn't know about this, but I've been out of touch
> for a while).

I must say that I'm a bit disappointed that they went that way, as I'd love to still be
able to take players onto Krynn via spelljamming ships. However, as that is the way that
Dragonlance has officially gone, I think we should stick with it for the sake of
continuity.

Krynnspace can keep the name. It will just be a different place with the largest world and
its moons missing.

In fact as the moons disappeared 40 years after Krynn did, some people might want to see 3
different versions of Krynnspace:

1) Krynnspace as it was when SJ came out.
2) Krynnspace after Krynn has vanished (14 years after the SJ boxed set).
3) Krynnspace after Krynn's moons have vanished (44 years after the SJ boxed set).

1) This is the 2e version of Krynnspace. Nothing needs to be done to it, although someone
might want 3e conversions of some of the stuff.

2) This is partially described in Dragonhelm's Guide to Krynnspace, but I'd like to see
more about how individual planets and communities are affected.

3) Again this is partially described in Dragonhelm's Guide to Krynnspace. I'm not sure if
the gods abandoned Krynnspace when they found Krynn. And I'm not sure if the Wizards of
the Towers of High Sorcery throughout Krynnspace would loose their power when their moons
vanished.

With the new Dragonlance campaign being advance 44 years after the material we are using
I'm not sure how that would fit in with Realmspace and Greyspace. I'm not sure how far
Living Greyhawk has jumped ahead, but Forgotten Realms only seems to have advanced one
year since the 2e version (16 years since the first 1e boxed set).

The spheres would all need to move on an equal amount of time for an updated version of
the SJCS to make sense. So I think we would possibly need to keep Krynn in Krynnspace
until the other spheres groundling campaigns catch up.

Some players and gamesmasters might not want to jump past all of this and may prefer to
play after the time of the SJCS but before Krynn vanished. I think that these events could
also make a fantastic background for a Spelljammer adventure or a Spelljammer story.

You could even run a game where you somehow tell the players what *is* going to happen to
Krynn. High ranking NPCs could head of to warn the natives of Krynn, leaving the players
to deal with a vital side mission that the NPCs need done.

David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Virtual Eclipse Role Playing Club
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/virtualeclipselrp/links/d20_system_001071937434/Spelljammer_001071430476
http://virtualeclipse.aboho.com/