Re: Planet conquering

<<The variables in either issue are too numerous to name. Clearly, there are
some worlds that are easier to conquer than others. If one intends to
conquer a planet like Toril, Oerth, or Krynn, however, I personally would
have to say its not possible. If it were possible for one league to gain
control of any of these worlds, it would have already happened at least once
in their histories and (according to TSR materials, at least) it hasn't.
There is simply no way that an outside force, with supply lines that are at
least several weeks to months long can conquer a native force defending
native and well-known terrain.>>

Ok.  I will give you that point.  But maybe it has not happened yet cause no
one has the cojonas.

<<The reason is quite simple...Everytime the invaders lost a (man, warship,
ballista, bombard, etc.), it would take another spelljammer weeks or months
to reprovision the lost material. But what if the invaders operated from a
nearby moon? you may ask. I reply...How damn long are you (as a spelljamming
society) going to spend provisioning that moon? If the moon provides a
friendly environment to people (i.e., is not a fire body or a void world),
don't you have to conquer the indigenous peoples of that place first?
Doesn't this throw the ball right back into the court of "Well...our supply
lines are six months long...we have killed guerillas (3000 orcs and 5000
goblins) at the cost of ten spelljammers. At this rate, we'll lose the war
before we've replaced our ships.">>

another good point.  But privisioning is easily taken care of, if the
invading force has access to 5th level or more priests with create food and
water.

<<Another reason invaders will fail is the cleric gap. Unless the sphere
invaders can set up enough worshippers to get their gods into the sphere
(Highly unlikely, see following example) they will be short clerical magic
when compared to the defenders. Without divine assitance, the war priests of
the invaders will be limited to 4th level spells.

Let's say it takes one hundred thousand worshippers to "invite" a hostile
pantheon into a sphere (remember, this is just 1/10 the population of
Waterdeep). If you move thirty worshippers per ship (these are not cheap
ships - hammers or better, probably) with a round trip travel time of 60
days (the invading sphere is relatively nearby), it would take 100 ships 33
round trips or 1980 days - 5 and a half Toril years - just to import the
worshippers. This begs two additional questions...where they gonna live, and
what are they gonna do in the meantime?>>

Ok.  Hows about a large group of the spacefairing drow?  They already have
stable priestly capability (Lloth), and also have underground supporters.
If they could co-ordinate with the drow of the underdark, and launch the
attack as the underdark drow are, or just after, due to the 2 pronged
attack, IMO say a city like waterdeep could (emphasis) be easily taken.

<<A final reason that the invaders will fail is patently obvious and built
right into the AD&D system. PC adventurers. The natives have 'em, the
invaders have 'em. BUT the natives can raise dead/resurrect theirs and the
invaders...can't (remember the 4th level spell problem?). Imagine how many
times you've seen a single adventuring party kill or capture all of the
warriors/mages/priests/whatever on a spelljammer. Now imagine how many times
over the invaders have to kill that one adventuring party when the natives
can cast bring 'em back from the dead as many times as they have Con points.

Now, put together a kick-a** PC group from Toril (Let's start with Khelban
and Elminster - both ex adventurers - and toss in 6 or 8 others of
comparable power level like Drizzt or Airlynn or Piergieron Paladinson).
You've got 150 spelljammers crewed by 90% third level Scro warriors and 10%
upper level types. Who wins? The PC's, hands down. Because PC's fight dirty.
They don't fly to a ship on griffons, they teleport without error. Once on
board, two death spells by Elminster kills everyone on board except the
helmsman, and then Airlynn hacks him up with her moonblade. Then, they
teleport to the next ship...and the next ship...and the next ship. By the
time they've run out of teleports your fleet is short 20 ships, and you
probably haven't done permanent damage to any of these guys. How many 3rd
level orc mercs does it take to kill Khelban or Elminster? Let's say that
after a big fight, you manage to kill one or more of them. Guess what?
Twenty minutes and one Resurrection later, he's back at full hitpoints and
ANGRY. Oh...and guess what? They can do it all over again tomorrow. Your
magnificent 150 ship fleet barely lasts a week.

I have no problem with invaders conquering small worlds and underpopulated
spheres. I will gladly take Toril in any wargames against any invader, and I
guarantee that in any reasonable simulation the invader will loose. >>

OK.  what about 'name level adventurers working for the invading force?  Yes
khelben and BIG "E" are potent warriors, but let's take the drow force from
above.  have a quartet of drow high priests keep them 2 busy.  Although the
BIG "E" does have that 'chosen of mystra' thing going for him........

And onto the dragons.  What is stopping the invaders linking up with the
evil dragons (assuming they are also evil) from recruiting their assistance.
 And if you have drow, you could also be reasonabilly assumed that they will
also be summining demons and such.