Re: SPELLJAMMER-L Digest - 19 Mar 2004 to 21 Mar 2004 (#2004-58)

<Furnace Helms are Arcane creations, they're just older (or older-style, the arcane may
still have access to new ones).  Getting helms second hand works very
rarely (like once in a great while) and isn't reliable.  If you're a
nation, you're going to have to buy them.  [snip]  Technojammers can't
reach SJ speed, as is clearly noted (most obviously under gnomish helms
where it points out that to date every gnomish helm that "works" has a
true helm at its heart).  If you're teleporting and plane hopping you're
not running around in an SJ ship and the discussion doesn't apply to you
since you're not  spelljamming.[snip] Even if you accept the idea that
the standard spells can be made intomagical items operating as permanent
helms (something that is highlydebatable based on the SJ canon) the
question still arises as to whereyou learned the spell.  [snip]
>
All emphasis in the following quotes is put in by me
I quote directly from the Concordance of Arcane Space:
"Helms can be acquired through a number of means, THE MOST USUAL BEING
DISCOVERY IN OLD RUINS or raiding an enemy ship for its helm.  THEY MAY
BE RESEARCHED AND BUILT BY HIGH-LEVEL WIZARDS AR GREAT EXPENSE IN BOTH
GOLD AND TIME. Or they may be purchased from the arcane, a group of..."
 Raiding an enemy ship is not something grundlings can do unless the
ship lands on their surface, in which case they will also not have
neccesarily encountered the Arcane.  A nation can build its own through
research if they feel the need.

again from the CAS:
"series helms are the  invention of THE ILLITHIDS (MIND FLAYERS), but
the idea HAS BEEN ADAPTED FOR A NUMBER OF RACES with spell like abilites
and no levels of experience. [...] Series helms were developed either by
the illithids or by the Arcane with the illithids in mind (accounts vary
according to the situation)."
That last bit runs pretty counter to the first sentence on series helms,
but it is there.  Since it says accounts "vary according to the
situation" presumbly that means its up to the DM if the topic ever
becomes critically important.

and again from the CAS:
"A recent developement of THE ILLITHID collective mind, the pool helm uses the natural...."

back to the CAS:
"Forge" & "Artifurnace"
I could quote the entire entry on Dwarven Forges and Artifurnaces but it
would be a lot of typing.  They don't get them from the arcane acording
to the CAS

The CAS goes Moo..: "Furnaces[...] They are THOUGHT to be an early
version developed by the Arcane."  Notice it doesn't state they ARE, so
they are not neccesarily originally from the Arcane.

Lions and Tigers and CAS oh my: "Lifejammers are believed to be an
invention of "THE NEOGI [...]   Other evil races, including undead, have
been known to use lifejammers as well."  It doesn't say they are an
invention so granted they aren't neccesarily from the Neogi, but since
the Arcane aren't even mentioned under lifejammers its unlikely that
they come from them.

And finally from the CAS: "Non magical engines:  There are a number of
ways of moving through space - gnomish engines, chemical propellents,
even explosive mixtures ignited in a closed space"
No mention of Arcane under those either.  Granted they can't go very
fast and can't even lift off from a celestial body larger than class A
but thats where teleport comes in handy.
You also confused Gnomish Helms with Technojammers, which are two seperate things.

You also said "There is no evidence life jammers or kreen helms aren't
produced by the arcane."  First of all there is evidence that life
jammers don't come from the arcane as I showed above and second of all
there is no evidence that they do come from the arcane and the burden of
proof lies with the affirmative.

And if you're teleporting and plane hopping then you're in space.  If
you're in space then you can grab a ship from someone, and you don't
have to go through the arcane to get it.

"In fact, it is noted that the neogi have to go through the illithids to
get their helms from the arcane since they've broken too many compacts
with the arcane in the past, which suggests they purchase lifejammers. "
Actually it suggests they buy something from the Arcane.  The arcane
sell more than just helms.

"every other type of helm seems to have at least an arcane helm as its
base, even if someone else has modified it"  I don't recall ever reading anything that suggests this.

"Even if you accept the idea that the standard spells can be made
intomagical items operating as permanent helms " You don't have to make
it permanent, repeatedly casting something like the spells Create Minor
Helm or Create Major Helm will do the trick quite nicely.  Where did you
learn it?  The same way countless others have learned new spells
,researched it, and developed it alone.  It had to be once, it can be
done again.

As I have just shown through citation rather than wild speculation,
there are numerous different ways of getting into space other than
contacting the Arcane.

P.S. please try to be more civil than "Bzzt. Thanks for playing. You've
just failed."  It makes you look very childish.


Proverb:  Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a day.  Light a man
on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.


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