Re: Magic to aid farming in space

Some good comments here and some good questions raised. I did some research,
and even less thinking, but I think we'll all find it helpful.

--- Michael Sandy <wuggadad@??????.com> wrote:
> Someone claimed that it would take 40,000 farmers to feed a city of 10,000.
> I would dispute that.

I haven't been able to find a real number directly related to renaissance
farming productivity, but found these things.

In 1820, (yeah, I know, but it was all I could find) 90% of the US population
was rural. By, 1990 the number was less than 10%. I would suggest that  farming
in the 1820's was better, but not hugely better than renaissance farming
techniques. I like the 90% number in that it makes any math very easy, but
understand that it may not be accurate. For renaissance farming productivity, I
would suggest 20 to 1?

Found two web sites that I think we'll all enjoy. One is the partner to a TV
show, the other is full of essays.

"English Property Rights vs. French Peasant Farming & Productivity"
http://www.essaybank.co.uk/free_coursework/3059.html
This article is not as dry as it seems. Basically, the French farmers got
smaller and smaller farms until they were inefficient, the English, ended up
with larger farms, and more successful farms.

Studying the Renaissance at Open University
"Economic and Political Context"
http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/renaissance2/economic.htm

Lots of good insight into renaissance life in general. Work, arts, politics
etc.

> First, the division between farmers and craftsmen isn't always that strict.
> Farmers produce a lot of crafts, clothing, wood products etc...  It
> may take 40,000 involved in some form of agriculture to supply a city
> of 10,000 craftspeople, but that includes _everything_ that comes out
> of the ground.

See above for what may be more "accurate" ratios. Also, from some of the
reading, farmers made what they could, but they couldn't make much.

Clothing (but cloth requires a spinning wheel, and spinning from wool), tools
(but iron working requires blacksmith tools, and skills). Basically, not a lot.
It looks like some wood furniture, basic clothing, food for themselves, and
hopefully enough extra to sell. Remember that most farming is subsistence
based. Farmers grew what they needed and wanted to eat, and any extra was sold.

>
> And second, it assumes that there is no magic being used on an industrial
scale, and that farm practices are medieval instead of Renaissance, like the
rest of Spelljammer's technology.

>From my reading, I don't get the feeling that farming changed much from
medieval to renaissance times. Supply may have become more reliable, but I
couldn't find much to indicate that the basic skills and technologies changed
much. Also, one of the links referenced above, implied it was more about the
division of the land than technology that affected early productivity.

>From a game perspective, while I like everyday magic in my games, I don’t think
the idea of industrial scale magic works. Not a lot of wizards are going to
make thousands of items when each item takes days to make, and you lose
experience each time you make an item.

>
> Consider skeletons working the harvest.  Cheap labor, relatively
> simple job, untiring,
> and best of all, you don't need to feed them.

This is a cool idea, but there are some problems with it. From a rule
perspective, Animate Dead limits the total number of undead that can be
controlled. They are controlled by the caster that created them. I think the
idea of a retired Necromancer that's taken up farming is pretty cool though.

Separate from the rule issues, think to our own modern controversy surrounding
bioengineered food. Do you think anyone would want food that had been harvested
by skeletons? Laws would be passed, public outcry would be heard, etc. But,
again, this sounds like a great adventure idea.

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE! IT'S PEOPLE!

> Various crop affecting spells will reduce the amount of time to get a
> harvest, others
> can insure against insects to ensure the harvest is successful.
> Another thing to
> consider is that agricultural asteroids might have very few natural
> pests.  And if
> they are smart, they will be very restrictive of ships landing for that
> reason.



“And while I do _not_ want to be around Gnome-built harvester equipment,”

Cool idea, and historically relevant. Early harvesters were steam powered.
Steam power requires boilers, and early boilers were very dangrous. Peruse
1800’s newspapers and boiler explosions were almost common. Over the next
hundred years or so, the technology and safety improved until today it doesn’t
happen.

> various
> simple aids to harvesting and plowing should be available,
> considering the amount
> of steel that is available.

Really large amounts of good quality steel were not readily available, because
the process requires large plants that simply didn’t exist. Iron was more
common, but even that is very labor intensive. The idea of a “industrial plant”
didn’t happen until well into the 1800’s. Good quality raw materials were
difficult to get.

>
> Grain farming allows a _lot_ of food to be grown in a small area.  It allowed
> farming regions to support large populations that displaced nomadic herding
> cultures.  But those nomadic herding cultures could afford a much higher
> warrior/population ratio because they needed fewer food suppliers.
>
> If there are a lot of food supplying asteroids available, with a lot of
> surface
> area, herding may be more successful because it requires less manpower
> and fewer structures to have to defend.
>
Ø       Michael Sandy

Good point. This could lead to large astroid ranches, but where cattle could
just be driven to market, but, these would have to be hauled by ship, and in
SpellJamming terms, that would be prohibitively expensive, unless the “ranch”
raised a delicasy of some sort. Purple worm caviar, or something like it? Or,
certain types of premium beefs demand higher prices in today’s world, there’s
no reason that there wouldn’t be an equivalent.

On the issue of the Rock of Bral having enough farm land underneath it. It
might be possible that because of the limited space, and a ready population of
good thinkers that high density farming techniques are developed first on Bral.
Some of these would even be considered State Secrets. Perhaps a Soy Bean/Lentil
mix with a government mandated “nutritional ingredient”. Just a thought.




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