Re: Prestige Class: The Heavy

Glad my feedback was useful.  I had one other idea I thought I'd toss your
way.  Maybe instead of giving a +2 to Bluff and Intimidate, allow the Heavy
to use his Strength mod instead of Charisma.  That'll end up being bigger
than +2, but fits well with the concept.

FRCS is the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.  :)

Sebastian

>From: Tilaurin <tilaurin@?????????????????.com>
>Reply-To: Discussion list for the Spelljammer campaign setting
><SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com>
>To: SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com
>Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] Prestige Class: The Heavy
>Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:30:13 +0930
>
>Thanxs for the comments so far, Ill reply bit by bit...
>
> > Seems a tad powerful.  Two good saves, a cleric BAB, a boatload of
>special
> > abilities, 4 skill points per level, the best HD in the game, and a
>decent
> > list of class skills.  I didn't read the prestige class in Polyhedron,
>but
> > my gut reaction is that this class could use a bit of toning down.
>
>Good points, but its really more something to give non-savages a touch of
>the barbarian hit dice/buffness.
>
> > What rank?  As it is, this prestige class can be taken at 2nd level by a
> > human.  The only published prestige class that can be taken before 6th
>level
> > that I know of is the Forsaker in Masters of the Wild.  With that in
>mind,
> > having a requirement of 8 ranks seems reasonable (and is possible with a
> > straight fighter at 5th level).
>
>Good point, and Ill add Endurance I think.  My bad for leaving out the
>rank - 8 seems appropriate :)
>
> > This is fairly arbitrary, and kind of like making an ability score a
> > pre-req.  And it could be fairly tough to get.  It's got one other weird
> > effect, which is that as the character goes up in level, it will become
> > _harder_ to gain this prestige class.  The fact that you get max hp for
>1st
> > level will weight your average for a while, but after a couple levels,
>even
> > a barbarian will be averaging 6.5-7 hp per level.
>
>That depends, some DM's allow the "take average hit dice" thingo, but I
>wanted it to be for big broad types.
>
> > I think the terminology you want is trip attacks and grapple checks.
>The
> > term for Holding is Pin, and it is a subset of the grapple check.  This
> > should probably be combined with Unmovable.  Maybe include a +2 to
>making
> > Bull Rushes and +2 Grapples for Unstoppable and +2 to resist Grapples
>and
> > Bull Rushes for Unmoveable.  I'd ditch the tripping resistance bonus
>(the
> > Blob, the classic unmoveable foe, is constantly getting tripped.)
>
>thanx for the terminology clearups, but I like the bonus vs trip
>
> > This probably should be a +1 natural bonus to AC, not enhancement.
>AFAIK,
> > there are no enhancement bonuses to AC.
>
>Yeah again my terminology aint that great, i mean +1 to natural AC from
>basic thick-skinned type stuff - one of my oldest mates is a mechanic here
>in oz and you can literally drop a brick on him and he wont care.
>
> > Whew!  That's the equivalent of 2 pumped up skill focus feats and a +8
>Cha
> > modifier for certain actions.  Even though it is limited by situation, a
>+2
> > is probably more in line with what other prestige classes get.
>
>Ill think about that, thanks.
>
> > I like this one a lot.
>
>ta - think of it as along the lines of caramon majere, who seems to be slow
>and dim witted, but is merely thinking very indepth and carefully.
>
> > Also neat, though the time to rememorize spells should probably not be
> > changed.  Elves only have to sleep 4 hours per night (and even then,
>it's
> > not really sleeping), but they still have to spend 8 hours recovering
> > spells.  Not that a spellcaster is likely to qualify for this class, but
> > nonetheless.
>
>Thats a good point, I didnt realise it - but hey, if any spellcaster can
>manage to get this class, first off I'd be amazed, and second off I rekn
>they deserve it lol
>
> > Objects have hardness, characters have damage reduction.  This is also a
> > neat/not very powerful ability.
>
>Ah, righto, stupid dodgy Tilaurin terminology again ;)
>
> > The bluff bonus should suffice for this effect w/o adding a bonus to
> > disguise as well.  Seems unnecessary/strange.
>
>Well, think of it as he knows how to walk like he's just an average joe, or
>blend in with the other workers in an area.
>
> > What's a half normal save?  Do you mean save with half their normal
>bonus?
>
>Yah, sorry - i tried to bring across a 2e bit of terminology there ;)
>
> > You probably want +2 to saves vs stun, daze, or nausea effects.  Also,
>does
> > this apply to magical effects, or just physical ones like the monk's
> > stunning blow (which is a fort save).
>
>Magical, psionic, and natural.
>
> > Limiting it to a profession or craft skill makes this ability fairly
> > useless, but it's almost unnecessary clutter.  I'd cut it out, it
>doesn't
> > add a lot to the class and isn't that interesting.
>
>Really?  I think of a star footballer who just gets more amazing as his
>career goes on!  IMC the scro are going to challenge the other side of the
>UHWII to a game of "mugby" (to be posted soon, basically zerog football)
>for
>a withdrawl of their forces every 12 months, and I can picture star mugby
>players :)
>
> > Immunity to an attack form is pretty hefty, especially immunity to
>charge.
> > Maybe give a +2 bonus to resisting bull rushes instead.  Stopping
>opponents
> > from being able to charge doesn't make sense, since a charge does not
>cause
> > the target to move.  To stop a charge, you'd need an ability to slow
> > down/disorient your opponent to prevent him from using his momentum in
>his
> > attack.
>
>Well, you have another good point, but I can see it like he can react quick
>enough to shift his balance and counter his opponent slightly - maybe it
>should only be against opponents of the same size and smaller?
>
> > This should be DR again.  This is really powerful, I'd substitute the
> > barbarian's ability to resist damage instead.  They max out relatively
>low
> > and can't be overcome with magic weapons.
>
>Well, i rekn magic should get past this easily, but I was trying to do the
>"brick to the head with no effect"
>
> > How is this different from Unrockable?  The could probably be combined.
>
>true, Ill take a look at that
>
> > Resistance would be more appropriate.  Saves are about dodging an
>effect,
> > whereas this character seems more about absorbing punishment.
>
>Actually thats a great point...  Ill have a GOOD think about that.
>
> > This is neat, and should probably replace unhurtable (which is way too
> > powerful).
>
>Mebbe :)
>
> > Another pretty cool ability.  I'd increase the time to 20 minutes
>instead
>of
> > 1 minute.  It might be too powerful.
>
>Ah, my bad - im used to 2e rounds which are a minute ;)  change rounds to
>minutes in that one :)
>
> > This prestige class is loaded with goodies, this is probably too much.
>
>Mebbe right.
>
> > This is really really bad.  It's also contradictory, since the rules for
> > bleeding, poison, etc require that damage be done for the effect to
>occur.
>
>Well, its like when you see a hero on TV acting regardless of the shocking
>damage he's taken - he can still bleed to death, but he really doesnt care
>;)
>
> > There's an ability in the FRCS called Die Hard.  IIRC, it let's you
>fight
> > till -10 hp.  That would probably fit a little better.
>
>That would be choice actually, whats the FRCS?  Fricasseed Rabbit Cyclone
>Stew?
>
> > Also cool.
>
>Course it is, it mentions Bruce Willis!!!!!
>
> > Decent.
>
>thanx :)
>
> > You've got the cream of the crop thief skills, including Disable Device
>and
> > Spot on an already hefty class.  I'd trim out Disable Device, Alchemy
>(wtf
> > is that doing there anyway), Animal Empathy, Handle Animal, Open Lock,
>and
> > Use Rope and dump him down to 2 skill points.  That makes him about
>equal
>to
> > what a fighter would have.
>
>well, Disable device I see as being good for the really mechanical workers,
>alchemy for those in an industry that uses chemicals, animal empathy/handle
>for stable/breeding blokes, open lock for the mechanicals, and use rope for
>cargo haulers (tying excessive knots etc).  What I might do is say "choose
>one out of" (insert the skills you mention) to take as a class skill.
>
> > Why not all martial weapons?  He's going to have them anyway in order to
> > qualify?
>
>True, and you may be right about the skill points - but a lot of
>crafts/professions for one character who is (statistically) likely to have
>a
>low int sorta makes me wanna give them 4 skill pts/level.
>
> > Check out the Ghostwalker in Sword and Fist for another example of the
>Bruce
> > Willis type take-a-lot-of-punishment-and-keep-coming-back-for-more type
> > character.  Maybe try and split the difference with that class and the
>one
> > in polyhedron to get what you're trying for.
> >
> > Sebastian
>
>Thanx sebastian, as soon as I can get sword & fist I will, Ive been meaning
>to but the psionics handbook knocked me back 55 bucks :(  stupid australian
>dollar!!!
>
>Tilaurin
>tilaurin@?????????????????.com
>http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/atreus/index.html
>"Dying Swans/Twisted Wings,
>Bring This Savage Back Home"
>- Brave New World, Iron Maiden
>
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