Re: LONG -- SJ+Planes / Drow Question / Ranting -- LONG

Andrew 'NightBeing' Alchemist wrote:
>
> BTW, did anyone ever thought WHY mixing SJ and planes is considered at
> least a bad taste? ;)
>
        Who says that?  SJ ships have at least been mentioned in various PS
products, including a squid in Sigal, ships in the plane of air, and
some ships in the outer planes.
        The big problem with SJ ships in the planes is that you lose the big
advantage of moving a ship at 100 million miles a day.  There are other,
cheaper ways of making flying ships.  And as Rich pointed out, travel in
the planes is random; SJs offer no shortcut, assuming they work at all.

> 1) Do SJ helms function on other planes?
>
        In most, yes.  However, all they are in the planes are fancy flying
ships.

> If they do:
>
>    Then  why  in  all hells the SJ ships aren't commonly equipped with
>    plane-hopping devices, and not used extensively on other planes? Do
>    I  need  to  mention such places as Limbo to make a point that drow
>    aren't  among the top ten of planehoppers among SJ-aware races, and
>    aren't even on par with some of SJ-expert races?
>
        Because SJ ships are already extremely expensive.  A minimum of about
110,000 gp investment.  Add a plane-hopping device, that adds what,
another 100,000 gp at least?  That's a bit pricey.  Plus you have to
deal with all kinds of flying races that would love to steal your ship
for themselves (about anything from the elemental & lower planes, and
even some upper planes would be dangerous places to play around in).

>    Why  SJ  ships  don't  travel  in  such  a  state -- for it is MUCH
>    quicker, and safer in some aspects like air and asteroids?
>
        Safer?  The lower planes?  I hadn't realized PS had so watered down the
planes that they were considered *SAFER* than Arcane Space.  Now
granted, Arcane Space used funky physics to make travel with wooden
ships plausable and got rid of most of the super dangerous stuff that
keeps US (as in the Real World) out of space, such as radiation,
golf-ball sized projectiles that can destroy a ship, and hard vacuum.
Add those in and it becomes debatable.

> And,  finally,  one  question  that  was  ALWAYS  on my mind. It isn't
> related to planes.
>
> Could  anyone  give  me any GOOD reason why SJ ships aren't used "down
> there"?  I could get some points that strongly suggest otherwise... So
> really, the above question could transform into "Why it is a bad taste
> to  mix  SJ  with  anything  non-SJ,  including groundlings?", and the
> answer  will  likely be: "Because it kills the credibility of SJ". The
> drow   question  certainly  falls  into  the  same  category.  It  is,
> basically:  "Why land-dwellers don't use SJ ships?" If we ask why drow
> don't  SJ,  and  how to make them, then why we aren't asking questions
> like:
>
        <Sigh> This comes up every six months or so.
        I'll do you one better: why don't kingdoms just establish large,
permanent portals in their kingdoms? A portal is even better than a SJ
ship; you can move an army instantly.  Sieges become a waste of an
attacker's resources.  Trade is instantiously.  You can move food from
outlying farms to the capital city 1,000 miles away in a few hours.
With such abilities, you could have an enormous capital city supplied by
farms two regions away.

> Example #1:
>
> Many rulers could easily afford a small fleet of SJ ships. Not too few
> of  them  are  SJ-aware. Imagine some medium or large ship packed with
> troops  suddenly  landing  in  the  dead  of  the  night in a critical
> location  of  enemy's  territory?  These troops will not need to worry
> about  months-long fighting advance, not even too much about supplies.

        Don't need a fancy SJ ship for that.  Any flying ship will do exactly
the same thing.  SJ ships don't offer any other advantage other than
altitude.

> Imagine  a lone dragonfly hovering over an enemy's positions acting as
> a  recon?  Imagine  it  has  all  of  its  5-ton cargo bay loaded with
> incendiaries? Now give me a reason why they don't do it?
>
        A 120,000 gp recon ship easily taken out by a small flight of flying
creatures, such as 2-3 griffon riders, a pack of harpies, or a single
dragon.  Why bother when you can do the same thing with a flying wizard
with an invisibility spell?  Same effect, cheaper, and less likely to be
noticed.

> WHY every aspiring emperor does not use SJ ships to conquer the entire
> planet?
>
        Because they can't afford them, because they don't understand them,
because they have better alternatives.  SJ ships offer just one magical
advantage in combat.  There are countless more.

> Example #2:
>
> Let's  consider  trade. There are many SJ ships that go here and there
> doing  trade  business. They don't make a LOT of money, otherwise even
> their sailor would have been rich people, AND the SJ piracy would have
> been  hundred-fold  more  common.

        I doubt crews get that much from a rich cargo run.  I think pirates
were the only ones that divided booty somewhat equally.  Sailors get a
set pay and maybe a bonus if they do a good job.

> But  there's  a  LOT  of  goods  that  make  a HUGE profit down there.
> Ordinary  ship  could take a few months of risky travel to get a cargo
> of spice or exotic craftsmanship from one continent to another. For SJ
> ship,  it is a matter of maximum of half-a-week, to lift off and touch
> down at another point of the planet. And the hazards are much less, if
> not to say zeroed.
>
        Again, why use expensive spelljammers when you have basic flying ships
and portals?  I see a lot of people complain that SJ could ruin a game
world with limitless trade, but no one considers that portals have an
even worse effect.  Why hasn't Waterdeep, with it's many mages, not
openned portals connecting that city to Mirabar, cities in the
Amn/Tethyr, Sembia, and even Shou Lung?  Why hasn't it openned portals
to distant worlds like Greyhawk & Krynn?  Permanent portals are far
worse than SJ can hope to be.

> So,  WHY  every  SJ  captain who's in need of some quick cash does not
> make  a  few  such trips in a time it takes to reach the nearest other
> planet?   WHY  trade  empires  like  real-world  Hanseatic  League  or
> Venetians don't use SJ ships?
>
        Why don't they use portals?  Why don't they use magic roads with
dimension distortion?  Why don't they use charmed Zaratan (the turtles
the size of islands)?  Why don't they just pull matter out of the
etheral and create anything they want without having to leave home?

> One  occasional Drow in the Space is OK, but do we need to pull to the
> stars every groundling race that just does not belong there?
>
        Because people like doing that.  Don't ask me why.  Everyone has their
favorite critter they like to take into space to be 'different'.

> Why we aren't talking Kobold starfleets? They need much less space and
> supplies,  so  they  have  MUCH  more  probability to find their niche
> there.
>
        The kobolds DID have a major presence in space...until the elves wiped
them out.  Why not ask the same of halflings?  They're just as small but
better fighters than the kobolds could hope to be.

> Why  there  aren't  too  much  SJ Minotaurs? Do Giffs beat them to the
> pulp?
>
        Because they didn't have room to devote to developing each and every
race as an SJ one.  They did make the big minotaur empire on Krynn have
a significant wildspace port of call, and on the net there's at least
one sphere that's entirely dominated by minotaurs from Krynn.

> Why not put Treefolk in the skies? They certainly could get along with
> EIN very well ;)
>
        Because they'd miss the forests.  Nothing to root into in space, except
maybe asteroids.  The one treant character in SJ books was rather
unhappy and wanted to go home.

> BTW, do EIN plant-ships have an air-regeneration capability? ;)

        Never said, but I think universally decided as yes.
--
Adam Miller