Re: sj and planes (was Spelljammer, Reborn?)

As Silmacar Halfelven (en hij heeft gelijk) pointed out:
Just the restriction to not allow teleportation between places, has no
build in proof that they exists on different planes.
For example: In Myth Drannor no teleportation to the outside world is
possible... and from the outside no teleportation to Myth Drannor is
possible... does this mean that Myth Drannor is an Alternative Prime?
What about Undermountain? What about Thunder
Peaks... or what is fire peaks... you know the 2nd player option adventure.
This restriction does not explicit mean that whenever teleportation is
prohibited... the two places exists on different planes. Nowhere in the
books was this written... so if we could introduce this as a house-rule
but, please not as a geenral conversion
rule. I can imagine that a lot of problems could be by-passed by
introducing alternative prime planes, but keep Spelljammer Spelljammer
and do not convert it to an alternative Planescape.....

Greetings from Flits3 (Illusionist Maginicus and proud owner of 5 (whee)  Giant Space Hamsters)

Silmacar Halfelven
Captain of the Guards of Cardolan

"Simply, it is not logical."


>From: "Mark T. Doolan" <markdoolan@?????????????????.com>

>OK I will take a stab of the muliple prime material debate.
Take this! ;)


>
>     In 2E all crystal spheres would be considered one prime as a sword +2
>was still a sword +2 as long as one went form one sphere to another.

A magical sword works like a "plane-o-meter", nu? Since a +2 sword from
Krynn is still a +2 on Toril and in the Flow, we can safely assume that the
standard prime material is composed by the Flow and the spheres floating in
it.

>"A character can teleport from one planet to another within a crystal
>sphere, but travel from one crystal sphere to another is impossible by
>means of this spell". Also from 2E PHB is the following form the Teleport
>spell description "When this spell is used, the wizard instantly transports
>himself, along with a certain amount of additional weight that is on or
>being touched by the spellcaster, to a well-known destination. Distance is
>not a factor, but interplanar travel is not possible by means of a teleport
>spell."
>
>It is clear that in 2E that each crystal sphere is A prime material plane
>but not one big prime material plane.

Why? This is not logical. It isn't said that you can teleport from A to B if
AND ONLY if A and B are on the same prime, so, being impossible to teleport
between two spheres, they have to be different primes. Not at all! It is a
different thing. You cannot teleport between primes, AND you canNOT teleport
between spheres. A causal relationship between these two sentences is not
necessary.

>
>     Page 44 of the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes: " Other Published
>Campaigns: Because every Material Plane can have its own cosmology,
>entering
>an alternate Material Plane is akin to moving into another world. The
>characters can travel to unique world you have created yourself or one of
>the existing campaign worlds publish by Wizards of the Coast."
>
>    It seems to me that each edition supports that each campaign world
>publish to date is an alternate prime material plane that requires plane
>shift or portal or other planer magics to reach. Spelljamming is unique in
>that it uses a special trasitive plane to connect a great many "alternate
>prime materials" .
>

Still logical errors. It is possible to travel between "worlds" (and I
insist on "worlds", not "planes"! "World" means "setting"!) via planar
hopping. This doesn't mean that this is the only way! Just because you can
take an airplane to get from Moscow to Milano, let's say, it doesn't mean
that you cannot drive the whole road.

Well actually we could assume that the cosmology of a prime is not the
layout of the sphere. It can be the way the spheres are arranged in the
phlogiston. Maybe, in alternate primes, there is no such thing like the phlo
(like the prime we're living on) and this is the different cosmology! There
is no need for the phlo to be a "special transitive plane".

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