Fwd: Re: Holy War - I ment weapon damage!

--- In sj3e@y..., nothajoe@h... wrote:
I see what you're saying regarding the damage versus a fighter, which
is one reason why I think doubling damage in space is the right thing
to do.  However, I think the figures you gave for a ballista as shown
in the DMG should be for a light ballista (3D6).  Most ships are
going to have heavy(5D6) or medium ballistae(4D6).  And I think
catapult damage is OK, though there should be light(3D6), medium(5D6 -
 as in DMG), heavy(7D6), and perhaps additional, multiplied by 2 for
space.  This gives plenty of damage to take down a ship if you
multiply all of these by 2.

And also remember that you don't WANT conventional weapons that can
wallop more damage than a high level spell.

I completely agree with the reloading problem.  Yes, it is much more
realistic if you say it takes 10 minutes to reload a catapult, but
much less fun.  I believe halfing the value is the least you can do,
but I have a few suggestions to help balance this.  The first is to
make it easier to disable a ship's helm with a catapult.  Increase
the check Troy mentioned, because a catapult uses bludgeoning damage
which would cause more stress on the total structure than the
localized damage a piercing ballista missile would do.  The second
suggestion is to allow catapult operators to waive the amount of time
needed to aim at the expense of a decrease the attack roll.
Considering the low AC such large objects should have (assuming you
don't create a separate scale), this would help add balance.  Perhaps
not a 1-1 give either; say you lose -1 to the catapult attack roll
for every 5 rounds forego aiming or something.

Also remember catapults and ballistas are just a start.  We also need
to convert more exotic weapons which should help offset "wiz-a-
pulting".  Besides, in an historical context wouldn't many ship
battles prior to the introduction of gunpowder usually result in some
type of boarding and hand-to-hand combat?  You should at least allow
players the option of being able to do this in a magical setting.

--- In sj3e@y..., spot_jill@y... wrote:
> The holy war i was talking about was the weapon damage. We spent
the
> last....2 or three weeks "discussing" them pritty heavly.
>
>   Now..it seems there is some disidence in the realm with d6->d10,
*2
> damage and old ROF's being kept.
>
>   here's why _I_ personaly use those rules.
>
> Lets look at some magic spells first of all.
>
> Fireball (6th level caster/3rd level spell
> Damage: 6d6 (av 21)
>
> Fireball (10th level caster/3rd level spell)
> Damage: 10d6 (av 35)
>
> Cone of Cold (15th level caster/5th level spell)
> Damage: 15d6 (av 52.5)
>
> Blade Barrier (20th level caster/6th level spell)
> Damage: 20d6 (av 70)
>
> Blade Barrier (11th level caster/6th level spell)
> Damage: 11d6 (av 38.5)
>
> Meteror Swarm (20th level caster/9th level spell)
> Damage: 24d6 (av 84)
>
> Now lets look at some technology, at various conversion rates
>
> Heavy Cat (x2 d10)
> Damage: 10d10 (av 55)
>
> Heavy Cat (x2 d6)
> Damage: 10d6 (av 35)
>
> Heavy Cat (d10)
> Damage: 5d10 (av 27.5)
>
> Heavy Cat(d6, as per the DMG)
> Damage: 5d6 (av 17.5)
>
> Ballista (x2 d10)
> Damage: 6d10 (av 33)
>
> Ballista (x2 d6)
> Damage: 6d6 (av 21)
>
> Ballista (d10)
> Damage: 3d10 (av 16.5)
>
> Ballista (d6, as per the DMG)
> Damage: 3d6 (av 10.5)
>
> And now, just for fun, i'll show you guys a few other damages that
> come up alot in games.
>
> Greatsword(1st level fighter with 16 str)
> Damage: 2d6+3 (av 10)
>
> Flaming Greatsword +1(7th level fighter, specilisation, focus, 18
str)
> Damage 2d6+1d6+4+1+1+2 (av 18.5)
>
>
> I dont know how i can any more simply prove my point then that. At
> 7th level, a fighter is gonna be doing more damage, on average,
then
> a heavy catipult according to the DMG values. More damage more
often.
> The 6th level wizard is doing more then either of the seige
weapons,
> althou not consistantly(only once per day, barring a huge int).
>
> Once you start factoring high level magic into it, it becomes
almost
> laughable. One spell such as blade barrior or meteror swarm is
gonna
> kill every exposed crewman and cause heavy damage to the hull.
Blade
> barrior is not a spell that is outside the reach of most partys.
> Mereror swarm we dont have to be as worryed about, but any 11th
level
> cleric or above could cast blade barrior.
>
> Were as you'll notice that higher level magic still tops out at a
> higher amount then seige weapons, but that is how it should be.
lower
> level magic should not be very comareable, but at higher levels
> archmagi can almost deal with ships alone.
>
>    Now. That's how i am looking at the damage anywase.
>
> now once we start looking at the reload times in the DMG........i
> have never, ever had a combat that was 68 rounds long(reaim+reload
of
> a heavy cat). i've never had a fight that took 34 rounds. We've
never
> gone above 20 rounds.
>
>    what good are seige weapons if you get alot of movement and no
> shots? I dont want to play the 'how many turns can we skip before
> someone does somthing relivent" game. i want to have swashbuckling
> adventures on high space, werebombard and catipult rounds hit your
> ship and send spaceseamen scurring.
>
>      If you criple the power of seige weapons then i see alot of
wiz-
> a-pults..........very fast ships who can get into atsophear quickly
> and then pelt the opponte's ship with spells. And what could the
> other side do? respond with one volly of fire and then wait for 10
> minutes as the crews get reloadedd, in the procss allowing the
> wizards and sorcerers(with their improved number of spells per day
> they will be very effective in this role) to kill every crewman and
> puncture huge holes in the helm.
>
>         wow that is NOT what i want spelljammer to look like.
>
>   for that reason, i like keeping the old rate of fire values. that
> way it takes a few rounds to reload, but certinly not a terribly
high
> amount.
>
>     maybe if we cut out the 10 minute aim value it would be
> alright.....factoring in thins such as the movement of the ships
> allows for easyer aim..and the gravity draws things twords it...
>
>   but even then, i would halve the DMG's reload times.
>
>                           Charley
--- End forwarded message ---