Reply to Andrew Tiffany's Giff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Tiffany" <atiff@???????.?????.??.nz>
To: <SPELLJAMMER-L@??????.???????.com>
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: [SPELLJAMMER] UPDATED SJ races --> 3e (very short)

> I'm sort of in favour of saying "no Giff spellcasters, period", but give
> them reach 10' and SR 12 like you say.  How about +2 Con as well?, and a -2
> Dex for their big feet.
I take it you're OK with their being +1 CR?

Is that just no Arcane spell casters, or also no Divine spell casters,
or no classes that get spells at all? i.e no Rangers,
Paladins or Bards either? Or can they join these other classes with
minor spellcasting power but they just can't cast spells?
I just assumed it was the first option but correct me if I'm wrong.

(Given the discussions about Giff spellcasters already on the list I'd
prefer to give them an XP penalty, like in Forgotten Realms,
and make them a "special" character which can't be played without permission - just my two cents).

Given their large size and natural armor a Con bonus would make sense
and I'm sure that no one sees Giff as ballerinas. As an
alternative to a Con bonus they could receive some other less potent
benefit-- like the Scro's +2 to fortitude saves...

I've updated the web page with your suggestion (its the second possible under Giff).
http://www.grayskies.net/graf/SJraces.htm

>
> >Are races like the (space) Lizard Folk, Scro and the Hurwaeti playable or
> do they need to be downgraded?
> >
>
> These, together with Giff, need to be countered somewhat with some sort of
> roleplaying/situational penalties, IMHO.
<snip>
It may be the number of years I spent around Vampire players but I'm
pretty leery of vague-sounding "roleplaying" penalties.
Especially when people don't know each other one character being set-
upon by the world can sometimes cause problems. Games
occasionally wind up centering around those characters and their
problems as the party winds up spending time and effort getting
around them. They tend to affect parties as a whole and you can't leave
the character even if that's what your character would
actually
do. IMHO this sorts of penalties don't really act as a penalty to the
character so much as trouble the other PCs, who had no choice
about who they were going to play with and the characters other PCs
pick. Of course this kind of thing can also dramatically improve
roleplaying and give depth to the world. But that's not really a penalty either.

I could definitely see a good DM taking care of this (every other time
they go into port the Giff is singled out for ridicule and
abuse frequently resulting in irritating and unwanted brawls) but in a
unified campaign where people travel long distances to play
for maybe 4-6 hours at a stretch once a month or two we should probably
avoid punishments like that. Its not really fair to the
other PCs in the party (unless it's a party of all Giff.... shudder) and
DMs may feel like they need to overlook the penalty to keep
the game rolling.

If we do choose to go this route I'd like to see some numbers attached -
penalties to NPC reaction checks or the material we produce
should have concrete problems which hamper only these characters
(certain merchants with excellent goods refused to do business with
them, they are much more likely to be hassled by police on the streets, those kinds of  things).

Do you notice anything else about the races you thought needed balancing or tweaking?

Graf