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Month Index: August, 1998


From:     Thatotherguy <spellj@??????????.com>
Date:     Fri, 7 Aug 1998 04:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:  Re: A New beginning
> I'd seriously have to disagree with your assessment of the restriction
> placed upon the "standard" cleric.  Clerics are forbidden from using
> edged weapons because it is a tenant of their faith.

Wrong.  Clerics are standardized, they are _all_ the same.  Thus it is
not a tenant of any _one_ cleric's faith not to use edged weapons.  It
is merely a class restriction.  This is why specialty priests are
individualized to their deity.  Because all their restrictions _are_
tenants of their faith.  Paladins are also generalized but they have
different restrictions and a special code to live by.  That's part of
their class.  That's why _all_ paladins (under the standard rules) are
LG and _not all_ deities have them.  _All_ deities have clerics (and
yes I know there are a couple exceptions like Tyr out there, that's
his choice, the point is still a cleric is a generalized class
available to any deity, if they choose not to allow it then that's
their choice).

Specialty priests (like paladins) accept a much narrower scope of
actions and choices in return for greater (or at least different)
power.  Clerics choose to be less restricted in their individual
actions but sacrifice the extra powers their deity grants in order to
do this.  Just as a lay worshipper has chosen not to mess with the
whole thing by not entering the clergy at all.  Now they can freely do
as they please with no repurcusions.

>  Using a sword
> doesn't just cause a -3 to hit, it goes against everything the cleric
> was taught.

You mean he just wasn't taught it.  It goes against nothing he was
taught (though I suppose one could make the argument that using an
edged weapon is significantly different from using a blunt one just as
using a battle axe is different from using a dagger).

>  Even though the cleric isn't a specialty priest he still
> has to atone for his sins to the god or higher power that he
worships.

True.  When he actually commits a sin.  One thing I think you're
missing here is why clerics can generally multi- or dual-class but
specialty priests and paladins can't (there are a few noted exceptions
based on the deity worshipped but in general it is recommended this
not be allowed for most specialty priests and paladins).  It is
because the cleric has chosen a broader course, one that allows for
such freedoms while specialty priests and paladins have chosen a very
narrow course and given up a lot of options based on their beliefs.
The level of dedication is not necessarily greater but they have
definitely chosen a more narrowly defined path (sort of like choosing
to be a deacon instead of a priest in many christian religions).

> Use of a sword no matter what the reason is a violation of ethos and
> should result in at least a minor transgression with removal of some
> benefits or powers.

Except that it has only violated a class stricture and not an ethos.
Otherwise we'd have one god to whom all clerics pray and all other
gods would be stuck strictly with specialty priests.

> Playing priests/clerics should be quite different
> from playing mages.  A mage's restrictions were designed to be a
result
> of the time and study it takes to learn the arcane arts, while
priestly
> restrictions were set up by the deities as their ideal of how people
> should conduct themselves.

Yes, playing a priest (as in specialty priest) is much different from
playing a general cleric.  The cleric takes only class/alignment
restrictions and a few broad restrictions on behavior based on the
deity served (for example a deity of agriculture and civilization is
going to get mad if his clergy of any sort starts championing the
wilderness unless it is specifically to the good of the civilization
in some way) whereas a specialty priest has a very narrowly defined
code to live by based specifically on the deity served.  Those are
choices that particular clergyman (woman) chose upon entering the
clergy and choosing a specific profession therein.
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Previous Message: Re: A new beginning
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Month Index: August, 1998

SubjectFromDate (UTC)
A New beginning    Will A Wagner    04 Aug 1998 21:23:32
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    05 Aug 1998 07:20:41
Re: A New beginning    Staffan Johansson    05 Aug 1998 14:51:03
Re: A New beginning    Thatotherguy    06 Aug 1998 10:39:56
Re: A New beginning    Erik Loren Jerks    06 Aug 1998 16:55:11
Re: A New beginning    Downer, Chris    06 Aug 1998 21:25:07
Re: A New beginning    Staffan Johansson    07 Aug 1998 15:20:01
Re: A New beginning    Harry Bandoian    06 Aug 1998 22:55:40
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    07 Aug 1998 11:04:51
Re: A New beginning    MaceScen@???.com    08 Aug 1998 01:19:41
Re: A New beginning    MaceScen@???.com    08 Aug 1998 03:07:50
Re: A New beginning    MaceScen@???.com    08 Aug 1998 03:07:53
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    08 Aug 1998 06:14:54
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    08 Aug 1998 06:38:33
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    08 Aug 1998 06:49:31
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    08 Aug 1998 07:03:44
Re: A New beginning    matrix    09 Aug 1998 07:39:07
Re: A New beginning    matrix    09 Aug 1998 07:54:41
Re: A New beginning    matrix    09 Aug 1998 07:55:40
Re: A New beginning    Thatotherguy    09 Aug 1998 16:50:50
Re: A New beginning    MaceScen@???.com    09 Aug 1998 18:00:54
Re: A New beginning    MaceScen@???.com    09 Aug 1998 18:00:51
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    10 Aug 1998 07:47:50
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    10 Aug 1998 08:01:30
Re: A New beginning    Staffan Johansson    10 Aug 1998 20:51:47
Re: A New beginning    Downer, Chris    10 Aug 1998 21:35:46
Re: A New beginning    MaceScen@???.com    10 Aug 1998 22:50:18
Re: A New beginning    MaceScen@???.com    10 Aug 1998 22:50:16
Re: A New beginning    Staffan Johansson    11 Aug 1998 00:31:54
Re: A New beginning    Manuel Gonzalez    11 Aug 1998 03:54:41
Re: A New beginning    Harry Bandoian    11 Aug 1998 05:20:05
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    11 Aug 1998 05:48:17
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    11 Aug 1998 06:02:08
A New beginning    Thatotherguy    11 Aug 1998 06:08:31
Re: A New beginning    Thomas F. Cullen    11 Aug 1998 15:11:21
Re: A New beginning    Lyle Leeman    13 Aug 1998 19:20:36

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