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Month Index: June, 1996


From:     Deviant <deviant@????????.??.ca>
Date:     Sun, 30 Jun 1996 00:56:57 -0700
Subject:  Re: Re:
Thomas O. Magann Jr. wrote:
>
> >> As I said before, no, it's in the PS and SJ works about inability to
> access
> >> certain planes cutting you off from effects dependeant on the planes, and
> >> access to them.
> >
> >That assumes that the effect is dependant upon the plane, which you have yet
> to have
> >shown.
>
> Haven't I? The first step of the process does require the etherial plane, as
> that is where the change always takes place, ergo, no access to the etherial,
> no change possible.
>
> Would you like the page numbers again?

I have the page numbers that you gave, there jsut isn't any proof on them. I  would like
to know exactly where it says that change is a necessity. It clearly states that it does
happen, but I have not yet seen a single source that states it must happen. Unlike the
change into elemental form which is clearly phrased. "A character elemental must assume
his elemental form exactly once per day, no more or less."


> >Once again, it has yet to have been proven as a required effect. Still a
> flaw in the
> >argument.
>
> It hasn't? What hasn't been shown is whether it's possible any other way. In
> fact, it seems to be the only possible way to do it.

Then why is there an argument if the case is airtight. The answer is, it is not. You
have yet to have shown that the transformation is impossible given the restrictions.
Thus, the argument remains.

>
> >I am not arguing about the stages of their change, rather the nature of the
> change
> >itself.
>
> Odd, you seem to be claiming that it can happen even without that first
> stage, which takes place on the etherial.

No, in fact it does not. It is a physical occurrence, and happens on the Prime.

> >> Page numbers for that little fact are available as well.
> >
> >Perhaps it is because the elemental form is not the character's natural
> state. Now if
> >you look at the rules, as an elemental becomes more powerful, he is allowed
> to reroll
> >more and more of the dice rolls, creating less and less variability in his
> elemental
> >form. And when finally he assumes permanent elemental form, his stats are
> permanent, as
> >they are with his regular body.
> >
> >Page numbers for that little fact are available as well.
>
> Yes, but that doesn't address the huge variability it the elemental stats
> (hit points) when there has been *no* change to the clerics power. Hell, the
> cleric need not have gained so much as a single experience point from one day
> to the next, yet the odds greatly favor having a different number of jits
> during the next change.

Once again, that is because the human form is his natural one. It is static, and changes
only very gradually. While an elemental is the very essence of change. But, as I
mentioned, once the form is permanent, the HD do not change. And as the cleric
approaches that state, his 'jits' as you put it, become less and less variable, and the
possibility of a different roll becomes progressively smaller. Until finally, the
probability is 1:1, and the character transcends his mortal form.

>
> >> Going from human to elemental requires a round as a human on the etherial.
> >> Going from elemental to human requires one round as an etherial elemental.
> >
> >But those three seperate locations aren't taking into account such a
> situation that the
> >etherial state would be impossible to attain, even though I still maintain
> that is not
> >the case. As you had mentioned earlier, the DS rules were not written with
> SJ in mind.
>
> Why would they? Both Spelljamming and Planar travel are supposed to be
> impossible for a DS character, or so I've been told.

By whom?
>
> As far as DS not being taken into account in conjunction with SJ, PS *did*
> take it into account, and says the same things about accessing the Inner
> planes from the Outer.

Once again your argument requires the assumption that the Inner planes must be accessed
from the Prime in order to make the change. This has yet to have been proven. There are
a host of alternate reasons that could be given to prove the contrary.

And as yet, there has not been one solid piece of evidence that states that your
assumption is correct.

--
******************************************************************
Deviant of the Blatant Disregard    ?Moral victories don?t count.?
                                      -Ragnarok?s Sixth Law of
    deviant@????????.??.ca               Survival.
******************************************************************


Previous Message: Re: Introducing
Next Message: Re: Re:
Month Index: June, 1996

SubjectFromDate (UTC)
Re: Re:    James Perry    27 Jun 1996 00:12:21
Re: Re:    James Perry    27 Jun 1996 00:37:33
Re: Re:    Don Weis    28 Jun 1996 15:10:58
Re: Re:    Deviant    29 Jun 1996 19:30:16
Re: Re:    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    29 Jun 1996 19:18:13
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 01:46:25
Re: Re:    James Perry    29 Jun 1996 23:03:46
Re: Re:    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    30 Jun 1996 00:06:56
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 07:11:08
Re: Re:    Don Weis    30 Jun 1996 05:19:06
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 07:16:45
Re: Re:    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    30 Jun 1996 05:44:31
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 07:56:57
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 08:01:37
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 08:08:08
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 08:12:05
Re: Re:    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    30 Jun 1996 06:25:48
Re: Re:    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    30 Jun 1996 06:42:32
Re: Re:    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    30 Jun 1996 06:47:03
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 09:43:21
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 09:54:49
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 09:58:17
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 10:01:55
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 10:10:39
Re: Re:    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    30 Jun 1996 08:49:42
Re: Re:    Shelby Michlin    30 Jun 1996 15:48:10
Re: Re:    Deviant    30 Jun 1996 18:41:21
Re: Re:    James Perry    04 Jul 1996 16:24:22
Re: Re:    Don Weis    05 Jul 1996 10:34:37
Re: Re:    James Perry    05 Jul 1996 17:34:26
Re: Re:    Eugene Shumu1insky    16 Sep 1996 21:50:02

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