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Previous Message: Re: Binoids
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Month Index: November, 1995

From:     "Marco Camacho E." <macamach@???????.???.??.cr>
Date:     Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:13:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject:  Re: Bionoids
OK guys, I'm back and I have read the whole thing over, there really is
a lot of info lacking on there which will undoubtedly lead either to
confusion or DMs making up the blanks.

It does say the original bionoids where elves, I must have gotten confused
from reading the cloakmaster cycle.

Oh well it says also that after the wars the bionoids were refused and
basically kept as far away from elven sight as possible, as half-elves
suffer that mishap also, its kinda logical to mix them both.

Also, BIG difference between a bionoid and the symbiont-host guy...
"...always led by the individual who started the unit, either the original
bionoid or its full-blooded descendants.  Bionoid symbionts are welcome to
join the unit, but must vow to avoid (and avoid infecting)..."

} The symbiont goes from internal to external covering the body (again based on

 Meaning the symbiont (exoskeleton thing) pushes out, this outta hurt quite
a bit, then again there isn't a very nice and easy way to solve the question
on how the symbiont comes through.
 Even more complicated would be trying to explain how the crystal eye comes
to the surface after being burried inside the skull, like its probably in
contact with the brain... that probably woulnd't be much of a problem but if
its going to be moving in and out, the brain might just not like that.  Then
again maybe someone has come up with a theory about the symbiont being
conserved within the gem, explaining hence how 9-11' of exoskeleton can fit
in a 5' body, and the essence being switched at change time, so then the
humanoid is conserved in the gem (as is written in the monster desc), while
the essence of the symbiont is released "pouring" out of the gem to assume
its huge menacing form. I dunno, doesn't sound that bad does it?
It might even have been originally thought that way if you look carefully at
the last 3 lines of the ecology section:
"...If presented with a living body, the crystal reduces and restructures
that body in favour of its stored master, resulting in death (of a sort) for
the purchaser."

} No. the host still controls the body. as I said above. The only control a new
} symbiont seems to exert is alignment and when a change happens.

 Actually it states the alignment changes as soon as the host merges with
the symbiont, and will remain NG thereafter.
 However it does seem the host has some control over the body, just like the
symbiont has some control over the host when in normal humanoid form.

} Again, a grey area, some other effects which place a mind in another body (if
} this is treated as another body), allow for the retention of spellcasting
} ability, some don't, some make it dependant on shape of the body  (as, I
} believs, do the various shapechanging spells). Your main complaint about
} spellcasting seems to be based on which mind is in control.

 Perhaps it *could* be allowed for bionoids to cast always that they can
manage the components.

} What it should be, is up to the DM.

 I totally agree, has it not been I who along this matter has been
supporting DM creativity.

} The books describe a symbiont which can't
} bond with, and tries to kill, orcs.

 Actually they describe a bionoid and mention the symbiont.
"...The egg bursts, attaches to the host, and grows as a symbiont,
eventually separating and becoming separate, nymph bionoid."
 And I'm sure they dont't mean it becomes a nymph as in small cute female,
they probably mean nymph in its insect definition.  So its saying most
clearly that there are both a symbiont and a bionoid. A host with a symbiont
can only change when danger threatens which would be the case of the
character of our fellow listemember.  If its a bionoid it changes,
will?  Geez they left 3/4 of the second side of the page in blank, they
could've written just that little bit more...

} Anything else is a potential host, if
} humanoid.

 I don't think so. =)  This could actually be used as a way to ensure that
the host has the health to support the symbiont and stuff like that, so
maybe the host has some ability requirements to meet... meaning not everyone
is a potential host.

} A bit of an exageration on the Strength, wasn't it?

 What did you expect? did you want me to go weigh some cows? =) Just
kidding, however 18/00 could easily lift one cow over his head and fling it,
its not like they are elephants...

} Then come up with a variant system of stats for the symbiont, not a way for
} it to modify some one else stats.

 Stats, if you want to stick to the stats of the sheet, then first off there
is no indication of dex 25, except for the 6 atks/round but then again
fighters at 7th level can atk twice/round and its not because they have had
their dex score increased its due to expertise.  That they have a mv48... so
do those huge guys...the colossus' and they are sloooow, anyway dex is not a
measure of how fast or far you can walk its a hell of a lot more than that,
I wouldn't go for that 25 in dex.
 Then STR 18/00 would acquiant for the +6dmg with the polearm, but then why
don't they have it with their fists which do 1d8... you *could* add the +6
to the 1d8 and make the bionoid _even more_ powerful, but it doesn't make
sense, its best to say that since these halberds of theirs can only be
wielded by bionoids they must have learnt how to employ them as to do the
most damage possible.  This is more logical and since the tohit bonus which
they would have with STR 18/00 is not calculated in the THAC0, cos if you
look in the DMG 9 is a proper THAC0 for a 12HD monster, hence the 18/00 STR
thingy doesn't make that much sense.

} As far as why they *might* all be identical, the Lakshu seem to be, and the

say no more, *might* is the key word.

} What the symbiont seems to be is an extremely portable, muscle and speed
} enhanced piece of armor. In other words, yes it seems to be exactly the same
} situation to me. The armor only works when worn, not carried, just like the
} Girdles.

 Its more like a parasite that lives with you until it has fed off you
enough to live by its own, as a bionoid.

} Did it ever occur to you that it was the syumbiont going thru all the changes
} and keeping the host safe inside? As you pointed out, it *IS* much larger
} than the races it was designed to bond with. As though it were designed to
} hold them safe inside?

 Well I don't go with that idea that the body is kept within the
exoskeleton, after all if the gem has the power to alter a body into the
shape, mind and essence of its owner it might as well "swallow" the host and
"spit" out the symbiont and vice-versa, and if you go with the idea of the
host being kept within, appart from there being a lot to explain about
movement and life of the creature and how the host has control and all, have
you thought about the energy blast ability where the chest opens up...

} Of course that fact that every egg out there may be a clone (whether thru
} magic or parthogenesis) of the original egg could explain they similarities
} in stats as well. As could certain design specifications of the original Elf
} designers, or the fact that the symbiont races is only about 400 years old,
} and may not have had much time for genetic drift. Remember the symbionts were
} originally designed as weapons. Weapon designers tend to like consistancy in
} their weapons.

 You have a good point but... you forgot that they are symbionts, they MUST
adapt to be able to live with a given host, they must be flexible if you
wish, and hence they can't be the same.  So if you figure 400 years is
little for a normal race to evolve, but for a symbiont, an adaptive race...

 BTW I am intested in a point that came up earlier, where did you get the
idea of a bionoid being able to attack upon being attacked as a reflective
action, you said something to the effect of that, and now that I stop to
think about it I didn't see that in the monster desc, and I was wondering
why one would want to give the creature even more abilities than it already
has, I'd say that what it *does* need is an xp value increase, its
ridiculous to think that after killing some living warmachine like a bionoid
you would get only 6000 xp, make that 2000 in a 3 person party... There is
some other guy which is just as tough as the bionoid... something with a
z... let me think... humm... I left the compendium in the cupboard and
brought only the bionoid sheet... za... dizantar!  those give more xp and
have only 1 attack/round, I guess its a good reason not to pick on a

  Lastly, why is it the bad guys always have the higher tech and the more
powerful goodies?  Orcs made those marauders or something like that as their
war weapon, the damn space marauder is something like 45HD and 1000' big!


Previous Message: Re: Binoids
Next Message: Re: Bionoids
Month Index: November, 1995

SubjectFromDate (UTC)
Re: Bionoids    Marco Camacho E.    10 Nov 1995 02:13:05
Re: Bionoids    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    10 Nov 1995 02:33:38
Re: Bionoids    Marco Camacho E.    10 Nov 1995 21:48:45
Re: Bionoids    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    10 Nov 1995 22:53:57
Re: Bionoids    Marco Camacho E.    11 Nov 1995 16:13:51
Re: Bionoids    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    11 Nov 1995 20:21:40

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