Search SJML Archives! (Powered by Google)

Previous Message: Re: Binoids
Next Message: Re: Bionoids
Month Index: November, 1995

From:     "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tomjr@???.com>
Date:     Thu,  9 Nov 95 14:34:46 PST
Subject:  Re: Binoids
> Breathe pal, deep and slow.  I think we found ourselves a rules-lawyer here
> So tell me if its not a polymorph, it has to be shapechange if I abide to
>your stick-to-the-book approach.

Agreed, but of the host or symbiont?

The symbiont goes from internal to external covering the body (again based on
the movies) The only shape changeing is of the host is the restructuring of a
foreign body for the original host. This seems to be more Poly Other than
Poly Self. And the basis for my answer to the original question. I've never
said it was right or wrong, just attempted to explain my answers to the
original questions.

>} But the host is still humanoid and in control of the body, if not *which*
>} body. Same number of limbs, fingers etc. The creature might have a problem
>} with verbal components, but shouldn't with the others. The Novels mention
>} few with spellcasting ability, but they never use these abilities in
>} form. Of course, given the combat abilities of a Bionoid, why would they?
> Thats not the point, if the DM chooses to use the host-symbiont thingy then
>it is the host which can use magic (if its a spellcasting host) and once the
>symbiont comes into control the body morphs/changes/whatever you want to
>call it, and the host becomes recessive, the body is controlled by the
>symbiont which doesn't know spellcasting.

No. the host still controls the body. as I said above. The only control a new
symbiont seems to exert is alignment and when a change happens.

Again, a grey area, some other effects which place a mind in another body (if
this is treated as another body), allow for the retention of spellcasting
ability, some don't, some make it dependant on shape of the body  (as, I
believs, do the various shapechanging spells). Your main complaint about
spellcasting seems to be based on which mind is in control.

>So definetly no spellcasting in
>Mighty Morphin Power Half-elf mode.

In your opinion. Let's let the guy make his own decisions. I said that I
allowed it and why, not that is was or wasn't possible.

> BTW that thingy were the egg can have
>its way only with certain races, now isn't that a whole lot of BS, so whats
>the deal are dwarves resistant to it, does it have to do with their
>"immunity" to magic, if so then the process would be magical and probably
>the body would later be magic emanating and hence detectable by a detect
>magic, and then some dwarves would be able to be hosts.

Dwarfs can be hosts. There is no save except for 1/2 orcs. The symbionts were
designed to destroy orcs and do so automatically if triggered by a pure blood
member. It also imposes it's alignment on the host. Half human members of orc
races save or take damage, if they save, they bond.

>  All in all it
>should either be neatly limited to half-elves which have a unique genetic
>arrangement being a half breed from humans and elves (as I am sure everyone
>is aware), or not be limited at all, which would be silly.

What it should be, is up to the DM. The books describe a symbiont which can't
bond with, and tries to kill, orcs. Anything else is a potential host, if

BTW, the original hosts were all elfs. Not half elfs. The current crop of
bionoids all do seem to be half elfs, so some cross breeding of other races
does seem possible, and it isn't something unique about half elves that makes
bonding possible. Based on the given guidelines, of course.

>} The stats refer to the stats of the symbiont not the host. So why make the
>} stats based on the hosts stats?
> Precisely why they must be based on the hosts stats, figure a half-elf
>peasant with 9 and below in all his abilities, he's a bionoid, so he turns
>into a bionoid and he has 25 DEX, 18/00 STR and can grab three cows lift
>them over his shoulder and haul them to oblivion (this might even be a funny
>sight)... So tell me do all humans have exactly the same strength? I don't
>think so, now why would all these funny symbiont thingies have the same str,
>a totally clone race?!
> It is for this reason that the symbiont part should have its abilities
>based on the host's, as I suggested earlier, +6 to dex score, +4 to str,
>and/or whatever else is needed to reflect all the bionoids abilities.

A bit of an exageration on the Strength, wasn't it?

Then come up with a variant system of stats for the symbiont, not a way for
it to modify some one else stats.

As far as why they *might* all be identical, the Lakshu seem to be, and the
situation on design specs and parthogenesis seems to be the same for Lakshu
and bionoid symbionts (see comment below about weapon design and

>} Girdles of
>} Giant strength replace strength, not add to it. The situation is the same
>} here.
>  Do you really think this is the same situation?, this is most amusing...

What the symbiont seems to be is an extremely portable, muscle and speed
enhanced piece of armor. In other words, yes it seems to be exactly the same
situation to me. The armor only works when worn, not carried, just like the

>  If the body does not incurr a total genetic change and suddenly it changes
>from a 5' half-elf into a huge bionoid without rolling system shock or
>anything (not that I remember anyway), and grows muscles to reflect 18/00
>which are humanly impossible (for the rule lovers the PHB says the strongest
>man ever didn't meet the 18/00 mark, and you gotta bet that guy had big
>muscles) so the body had to be altered incredibly to change into this shape,
>I mean the incredible hulk would look so puny beside a bionoid, just
>comparing the muscles and not the claws and stuff... I mean just how long do
>you think it takes a bodybuilder to build up a large muscle? It takes a good
>while and here you go, its fantasy ok, and the change in the muscle size
>takes less than a round, if you go into technicalisms then stop and figure
>out just how much blood the heart would have to pump to keep the armfrom
>becoming numb, let alone use it for battle.

Did it ever occur to you that it was the syumbiont going thru all the changes
and keeping the host safe inside? As you pointed out, it *IS* much larger
than the races it was designed to bond with. As though it were designed to
hold them safe inside?

>  All this is not saying shapechange or whatever you want to call it can't
>happen in the fantasy campaign, its just that you should really consider say
>in the case of the bionoid, to *adjust* the abilities of the host to get the
>ones of the symbiont, instead of setting a clone-like always-true no
>exception to the rule, ability score rating.

Of course that fact that every egg out there may be a clone (whether thru
magic or parthogenesis) of the original egg could explain they similarities
in stats as well. As could certain design specifications of the original Elf
designers, or the fact that the symbiont races is only about 400 years old,
and may not have had much time for genetic drift. Remember the symbionts were
originally designed as weapons. Weapon designers tend to like consistancy in
their weapons.

Thank You For Your Time,

Thomas O Magann Jr

<tomjr@???.com> or my back-up: <TMagann@???.com>

Previous Message: Re: Binoids
Next Message: Re: Bionoids
Month Index: November, 1995

SubjectFromDate (UTC)
Binoids    Joseph DuBois (x44303)    08 Nov 1995 13:33:24
Re: Binoids    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    09 Nov 1995 01:51:51
Re: Binoids    Marco Camacho E.    09 Nov 1995 12:22:10
Re: Binoids    Ken Lipka    09 Nov 1995 13:13:13
Re: Binoids    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    09 Nov 1995 18:43:34
Re: Binoids    Marco Camacho E.    09 Nov 1995 22:07:01
Re: Binoids    Thomas O. Magann Jr.    09 Nov 1995 22:34:46

[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]