Search SJML Archives! (Powered by Google)

Previous Message: Mystara and PS/SPJ
Next Message: Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ
Month Index: October, 1995


From:     Leroy Van Camp III <van891@??????.edu>
Date:     Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:  Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ

On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, Ken Lipka wrote:

> 	Zero work, eh?  What about how many other dimensions there are?  Does
> Odin live on the same Outer Plane in each dimension?  Does Odin even exist on
> the other dimensional Outer Planes?  If there are multiple Odins, why?  A god
> should be able to cross dimensional barriers very easily.  And as such, that
> means that all gods are actually avatars for the true version of themselves
> and that there is a base dimension where the gods REALLY live.
> 	I knew exactly what sort of image you wanted to present, and it is
> entirely too messy.

    I'm sorry, but your making it more difficult than it really is...

1)   I never said I was going to detail these alternate dimensions.  This
may sound like a cop out, but it's not.  The whole dimension idea was for
color and a rationale, not as a new place for PC's to visit.

2)   I never said these were _alternate_ dimensions.  That is, they are
not slightly different versions of the multiverse.

3)  Who says gods should be able to cross dimensional barriers easily?
Gods in AD&D are hardly omnipotent, omniscient forces.  The gods can't
even get into the prime material plane half the time!

4)  Odin is Odin.  There are no alternate Odins, becasue the dimensions
are not alternate dimensions.  As I stated in the original posting, each
dimension can have a radically different layout.

> >     What this concept does is...
> >
> > 1)  It allows the history and concepts of the other-dimensional elements
> > of Mystara to be retained without _any_ changes.  By not having to
> > shoehorn these elements into the multiverse, much work is eliminated.
> >
> 	Making dimension equal crystal sphere does exactly the same thing.
> The elements IN THE MYSTARA SETTING are not changed at all - beings from other
> dimensions are still beings from other dimenstions (to the Mystarans).  But
> from a god's eye point of view, they are only people from another crystal
> sphere and are not bothering to correct the misconceptions of those native to
> the Mystaran crystal sphere.
> 	Thus, events are not shoehorned in the multiverse because they already
> exist in the multiverse.  In fact, trying to make all these pocket dimensions
> you end up with more work than one simple redefinition.

    This is simply not true.  By taking certain elements and simply
sticking them into the multiverse, you are changing their story and feel.
For example, the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set says specifically that
the spaceship originated from a universe like our own, with open space,
solar systems, galaxies and such.
    I had a view of Mystara's history and flavor very much in mind when I
worked up the dimension idea.  To just stick a bunch of it in a crystal
spheres detracts from that.

> > 2)  It does the above without making a single change to the multiverse
> > itself.
> >
> 	BZZZT!!!  Wrong answer.  Certainly, the multiverse of PS is unaffected.
> But the problem is that the PS multiverse is the same as The Multiverse.  Your
> solution makes a pretty major change to The Multiverse.  With essentially
> infinite numbers of sets of planes of infinite size, your metaphysics are even
> messier than cold fusion.
> 	What your solution has done is to make multiple copies of an already
> infinite multiverse.  As I said, this is an interesting idea.  What you have
> to do make this idea work, is a lot of work on these other dimensions.  What
> makes these other dimensions so special that they have to whole other
> dimensions?  Why can't they be other crystal spheres and realms on the Outer
> Planes as they already are documented?

    What makes another crystal sphere so special that it has to be a
whole other crystal sphere?   And when did I ever say "copy".
    I think part of the problem here is you think I created this whole
dimension thing so that PC's could go galavanting around in other
dimensions.  This was not my goal.  It is simply background.

> 	Does another dimension reverse the alignments of all existing people,
> such that Iuz is a Lawful Good demi-god trying to free Greyhawk from the
> centuries of tyrannical mortal rulers; and Ivid is a benevolent ruler who's
> gone criminally insane from dealing with LG demons?  If you actually want this
> to exist, fine.  But if you hate the idea of such alternate worlds then your
> excuse for dimensions just got trashed.  Because if your excuse for dimensions
> is just that, say, rabbits are the dominant life form rather than humans, just
> create a crystal sphere where this is so.

    You seem to have taken the whole concept farther than I, then turned
around and criticized it all as if I said it.  I made no claim about what
the other dimensions are like, and I certainly never claimed they were
somehow mirrors, twisted or otherwise.
    Excuse?  Rabbits?  Perhaps I should go back and read my posts.  I
think something subliminal has been slipping in. =)

> 	Nope, dimensions are too much work for the simple taks of saying, "I
> want characters from Mystara to be able to interact with characters from
> Sigil in a coherent fashion".

    That is not what I said.
    Just to set the record straight, here is my "mission statement" for
all of this...

    "My goal is to come up with a way of keeping the full flavor and feel
of the world of Mystara, as I perceive it, while fully integrating it
into the Spelljammer and Planescape model of reality."

   The dimension concept took me about two minutes of though and five
minutes of typing to get it to a level I am satisfied with.  Hardly
classified as work.


               Leroy Van Camp III      van891@??????.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
               "Cthulhu, eh?  I'll try and backstab him"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Previous Message: Mystara and PS/SPJ
Next Message: Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ
Month Index: October, 1995

SubjectFromDate (UTC)
Mystara and PS/SPJ    Ken Lipka    13 Oct 1995 17:57:58
Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ    Leroy Van Camp III    13 Oct 1995 18:42:29
Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ    Marco Camacho E.    13 Oct 1995 22:51:43
Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ    Ken Lipka    16 Oct 1995 11:48:25

[ SPJ-L@Cornell.edu ] [ Spelljammer@Leicester.ac.uk ] [ Spelljammer@MPGN.com ] [ Spelljammer-L@Oracle.Wizards.com ]