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From:     Ken Lipka <klipka@????.com>
Date:     Fri, 13 Oct 95 13:57:58 EDT
Subject:  Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ
Leroy Van Camp III stated:
>     Looking over your response, I believe my idea could have been better
> written, because there seems to be some confusion here.  The whole
> dimension thing takes virtually zero work to integrate.
>     Take the multiverse, as delineated in the Planescape setting.  Nothing
> has changed; all the planes are the same, and all they gods are in the
> same place.  Again, nothing changes here.
>     Now, as an example, take the concept of demi-planes.  Although they
> are, for the most part, planes unto themselves, with laws of reality of
> their own, they are contained within another plane, the Ethereal.
>     OK?  Now, imagine that the multiverse, like demi-planes, is contained
> within a larger, macro-plane.  This does not change the multiverse, it
> just makes it a part of a larger whole.
>     Now, imagaine that this macro-plane, or dimension, is a part of a
> "community" of dimensions, like each Outer Plane is part of a bigger
> whole.  Each of these dimensions has it's own layout and laws.  For
> example, the dimension that the crashed spaceship is from is layed out
> like our own, as detailed in the Wrath of the Immortals.

	Zero work, eh?  What about how many other dimensions there are?  Does
Odin live on the same Outer Plane in each dimension?  Does Odin even exist on
the other dimensional Outer Planes?  If there are multiple Odins, why?  A god
should be able to cross dimensional barriers very easily.  And as such, that
means that all gods are actually avatars for the true version of themselves
and that there is a base dimension where the gods REALLY live.
	I knew exactly what sort of image you wanted to present, and it is
entirely too messy.

>     What this concept does is...
> 1)  It allows the history and concepts of the other-dimensional elements
> of Mystara to be retained without _any_ changes.  By not having to
> shoehorn these elements into the multiverse, much work is eliminated.
	Making dimension equal crystal sphere does exactly the same thing.
The elements IN THE MYSTARA SETTING are not changed at all - beings from other
dimensions are still beings from other dimenstions (to the Mystarans).  But
from a god's eye point of view, they are only people from another crystal
sphere and are not bothering to correct the misconceptions of those native to
the Mystaran crystal sphere.
	Thus, events are not shoehorned in the multiverse because they already
exist in the multiverse.  In fact, trying to make all these pocket dimensions
you end up with more work than one simple redefinition.

> 2)  It does the above without making a single change to the multiverse
> itself.
	BZZZT!!!  Wrong answer.  Certainly, the multiverse of PS is unaffected.
But the problem is that the PS multiverse is the same as The Multiverse.  Your
solution makes a pretty major change to The Multiverse.  With essentially
infinite numbers of sets of planes of infinite size, your metaphysics are even
messier than cold fusion.
	What your solution has done is to make multiple copies of an already
infinite multiverse.  As I said, this is an interesting idea.  What you have
to do make this idea work, is a lot of work on these other dimensions.  What
makes these other dimensions so special that they have to whole other
dimensions?  Why can't they be other crystal spheres and realms on the Outer
Planes as they already are documented?
	Does another dimension reverse the alignments of all existing people,
such that Iuz is a Lawful Good demi-god trying to free Greyhawk from the
centuries of tyrannical mortal rulers; and Ivid is a benevolent ruler who's
gone criminally insane from dealing with LG demons?  If you actually want this
to exist, fine.  But if you hate the idea of such alternate worlds then your
excuse for dimensions just got trashed.  Because if your excuse for dimensions
is just that, say, rabbits are the dominant life form rather than humans, just
create a crystal sphere where this is so.

	Nope, dimensions are too much work for the simple taks of saying, "I
want characters from Mystara to be able to interact with characters from
Sigil in a coherent fashion".

	Ken Lipka

>     The dimesnion concept is a pain free, no work idea that allows the
> Mystara setting to be integrated into the SJ/PS paradigm, while still
> retaining its history and flavor.
>                Leroy Van Camp III      van891@??????.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                "Cthulhu, eh?  I'll try and backstab him"
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Previous Message: Re: Mystara and the SJ/PS paradigm
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Month Index: October, 1995

SubjectFromDate (UTC)
Mystara and PS/SPJ    Ken Lipka    13 Oct 1995 17:57:58
Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ    Leroy Van Camp III    13 Oct 1995 18:42:29
Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ    Marco Camacho E.    13 Oct 1995 22:51:43
Re: Mystara and PS/SPJ    Ken Lipka    16 Oct 1995 11:48:25

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